Computer Generated Picks

[timal]

Hi all I have PM'ed a couple of members in search for a template ( to scale) of the computer generated picks. Do you think this link to the HPCworld site:

http://www.hpcworld.com/Picks/p_comp1.htm

Do think this is close enough scale to use as a template ?

[WhiteHat]

That scale is probably very close, but I think Zeke79 used to have a template for these up on his FTP site way back in the day, not sure if it's still up there.

[UWSDWF]

yeah i think they are

www.locksportarchives.com

[timal]

Looks like I will print these out and give them a try.

[hippy5749]

What's the point of saying that they are at locksportarchives when only a very few can access it? Did he open it up for templates? I would love to know. Thank you for any response........

[zeke79]

It is open to all. You just have to have 30 posts here to show you are an active member of this community.

[hippy5749]

Thanks for replying so soon. I went ahead and registered on your site. Didn't know about the 30 posts thing. I try to post only when I feel it is constructive.

[Axon]

Can somebody explain what exactly a computer pick is...

I'm just getting started in this hobby and recently picked my first lock, though I've been reading the forums for awhile. But I finally got around to buying a pick set, and started prcacticing.

Before I got my set I was using dental tools...

Thanks all, really apriciate the site!

[Romstar]

Can somebody explain what exactly a computer pick is...

I'm just getting started in this hobby and recently picked my first lock, though I've been reading the forums for awhile. But I finally got around to buying a pick set, and started prcacticing.

Before I got my set I was using dental tools...

Thanks all, really apriciate the site!

A computer pick is a wave or profile pick that is, or supposedly was designed by computer.

In every lock system there are a certain number of combinations. Each of these combinations can be described as a shape if it is traced on a piece of paper.

One of the first things you begin to see is that the patterns repeat. The depths are different, but the pattern is the same or at least similar.

If you analyze all of the patterns, and how the interact you can design a set of picks that aproximate these same shapes in a relatively small number of picks.

Since the depths are different, and there can be some pins that are higher or lower, the shapes are often modified so that they can amproximate a wide number of these patterns.

Now, getting them to work requires a completely different technique. These are not rakes, but profiles. The point is to make the pick's pattern pretend to be the key cuts thus raising the pins to the shear line.

Inserting the pick and moving it in a figure 8 motion causes the shape to move in and out a bit, as well as up and down. Also it produces a rocking motion. In as few as 8 picks you can aproximate as many as 1000 patterns and as many as 10,000 key differs. These numbers are aproximate as each manufacturer is different and various spacings and depths can change the differs that are available.

I hope that explains them a little better.
Romstar

[Axon]

Wow...Thanks for the quick reply.

I think I understand now...Thanks Much

Axon

[charlied]

So computer generated picks are basically hand made by anyone using some templates and if you bought some from someone they could be bad or good just depending on that persons ability.

[Gordon Airporte]

So computer generated picks are basically hand made by anyone using some templates and if you bought some from someone they could be bad or good just depending on that persons ability.

No, there are at least two professionally manufactured 'computer pick' sets - one by HPC and the other by Majestic. The companies did all the work of generating the magic profiles and these sets are what the templates are based on.
IMO it's just too much work to make a full set (like, 16 picks) from templates - especially given how precise the shape needs to be.
If you want to make your own profile picks go with a King and Queen set, which is just the two picks (using both sides gives you four profiles.)

[Romstar]

There are soon going to be four more picks in that set, maybe six depending on how the math works out.

I can design variations on normal picks in a matter of minutes or hours, but what I am working on for these ones require some numbers that I just had to go to the computer for.

The basic pattern variations are the key, and you have to get those patterns, and see what matches up by overlaying them on each other.

Once you have the basics, then you go after the anomolies. If you can incorporate a change in the basics to take the odd ones into account, great. Otherwise you have some interesting work ahead of you.

Bear in mind that its the PATTERNS of the bitting we are after, not just the codes. So a 44354 bitting is the same as a 66576 or a 22132. The height is all that matters.

This is drastically simplified mind you, but once you get the bitting patterns you can then design a set of shapes that will allow you to aproximate the greatest number of those patterns.

So, pretty soon there will be a "Royal Family" to go along with the King and Queen.

Romstar

[Exodus5000]

Hey Rom, how is it that you've managed to figure out the most common patterns utilized?

[Romstar]

Hey Rom, how is it that you've managed to figure out the most common patterns utilized?

Ever see a program that makes masterkey systems? It will spit out all your cuts and your master cuts and everything else.

So, you take a piece of software, get it to spit out all the possible combinations of a 7 pin lock, discard anything like 1111111 or 5555555 and other silliness. Remove any MACS violations and other "non-allowed" combinations. Then translate each of the codes to a set of physical patterns.

Find all codes that are similar in shape, IE: 5464532 is the same as 7686754 and 3242310. After you have these, find all codes that share similar characteristics.

Once you have a manageable number of codes, turn them into patterns, and begin to look for other similarities. Eventually what you find are a set of patterns that will simulate a wide variety of combinations.

See, we talk a lot about key differs and over half a million combinations, but nobody ever really thinks about how many of these combinations are the same SHAPE. Thats the key (pun intended).

On a properly cut key, the bitting is important, and a key cut for 3242310 will not open a lock pinned for 5464532, but a pick with the proper shape WILL open those locks. It just depends on how high you lift it.

So thats how you go about finding the shapes. That, along with some creative interpretation.

While I am using codes for 7 pin locks, the picks will have the greatest success rate against 5 pin locks. The success rate goes down as you attack 6 pin, and down further when you attack 7 pin. This is simply due to how far into the lock you can insert the pick.

I hope that makes it a little more clear.
Romstar