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Were to get lockpicking tools in Canada?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Postby bumpit » 14 Oct 2006 5:27

This post should be stickied for Canadians, unless you are from Alberta where you do need a lisence.
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don't forget

Postby raimundo » 14 Oct 2006 8:34

don't forget that you can always make your own tools and this will solve the problem for you, If you develope the habit of designing and making your own tools, you will be able to make "specials' for those one of a kind locks.
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Postby bumpit » 15 Oct 2006 3:40

don't forget that you can always make your own tools and this will solve the problem for you, If you develope the habit of designing and making your own tools, you will be able to make "specials' for those one of a kind locks


I found it easier to design my own tools once I bought a set of Southords to know the exact size. It is hard to measure exact size from pictures. Romstar has some nice set of perfect sized prin ot picks.
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Postby bumpit » 15 Oct 2006 3:41

*print out picks*[/quote]
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Postby pickmonger » 15 Oct 2006 8:46

Every Canadian Lockpicker should be aware of the law in Canada.

Frankly many people do not know the law, this includes the police and others who should know better.

Locksmiths and locksmith tool vendors are also known to misquote it on purpose, to suit their purposes. These people are very secretive and do not like non locksmiths asking about and for picking tools.

What's this about a pick license ?

Canadian federal law requires anyone in possession of certain locksmith tools to have a license, just like you need a license(s) to own a gun.

However there are a few "grains of sand in the vaseline"


1) Obtaining a Pick License

The Criminal Code of Canada, while applying to all Canadians, delegates the responsibility of providing licenses for picks to the provinces.

Section 353 of the Criminal Code of Canada states

Everyone who sells, offers for sale, purchases or has in his/her possession in a province an automobile master key otherwise than under the authority of a licence issued by the Attorney General of that province, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

Some provinces have not passed legislation for the issuing of these licenses.

Consequently, this means that you are required to have a license that, you are not able to obtain if you live in some provices.

Alberta does issue these licenses, as do several other provinces.

Common practise is to assume that if you can not get a license, then you are exempt from that section of the law.

2) What tools require a license, and what tools do not.

What is an automobile master key?
Section 353 of the Criminal Code of Canada defines automotive master keys as a key, pick, rocker keys, sully kits, slim jims, lock out kits or other instrument designed or adapted to operate the ignition or other switches or locks of a series of motor vehicles or business and/or residential locks.

http://www.solgen.gov.ab.ca/security_pr ... px?id=2243

Note, while they call it a automobile master key, it includes business and residential locks.

So if my province does not issue a Pick License, I have nothing to worry about, right?

Sorry its not that simple. Even if you do not have to worry about getting a Pick Lincense, there are other laws about being in possession of tools that could be used for commiting a crime.

For example

Assume I am stopped by the police.

They find prybars and hammers in a bag on the front seat of the car. I have them because I have been doing renovations on my new house, ripping up an old wooden floor.

I also choose to move my computer gear and stereo system to the new place, and they are piled in the back seat.

However, someone reported a car just like mine, in the driveway of a house that just got robbed one block away.

The law gives the police the option of considering my tools,

i)tools for doing legitimate work, or

ii) deemed burglary tools.

Its not the tools themselves, but the circumstances under which I have them in my possession.

While I could no doubt sort of the misunderstanding, I might be in for some uncomfortable times.

Likewise with lockpicking gear. If when taking your gear to a meeting at a friends house, and just by bad luck, are in the area of a crime where lockpicks might have been used. You will probably have quite the chat with the police if they stop you and find picks.

In summary

Make sure that you know for certain that your province does not issue pick permits. Alberta is not the only one.

Even if exempt from getting a permit, realise that lockpicking gear can be considered burglary tools depending on the circumstances.
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Postby Romstar » 15 Oct 2006 17:02

Pickmonger pretty much has it on the nose.

The provinces that do issue license are: Sasketchewan, Alberta and British Columbia.

In any of these provinces, I have found no way for a hobbiest to obtain a permit. In all of the cases you must be at least a student, and in some cases you must be sponsored by a locksmith, or be running your own shop.

This basically means that you are "technically" in violation of two codes. The provincial statutes and the federal codes. However I have never once been able to find a single instance of any person being charged only for the "crime" of posessing locksmith tools.

In every single case the charge has accompanied an additional criminal code charge, most often B&E or some other charge. In each of these cases, the "burglery tools" charge was used as a bargining chip by the prosecution in an attempt to elicit a guilt plea from the accused on the other charge.

If you are picking locks in any of these provinces, you really should read the following Supreme Court decision. Read it very carefully, because it can get confusing.

http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1988/1988rcs1-914/1988rcs1-914.html

My honest advice to anyone is this:

So long as you are NOT involved in any criminal activities, and so long as you make an effort to avoid complicated situations, you should have no difficulties whatsoever.

In any other province you are just left on your own. I haven't yet met a prosecutor that wants to pursue such a matter without an additional charge, and the Nova Scotia justice minister has basically said that prosecution for that charge alone would not happen. Its just not worth it because they haven't made licenses available.

When I asked the minister about this very issue, he stated plainly that every single locksmith and supplier in the province is basically contrviening s. 353 of the criminal code, but there was no real legal recourse because the federal statutes placed the burden on the provinces.

Relax, be aware of your circumstance and stay out of trouble and you will be just fine.

Romstar
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I found the only store in GTA thats cool.

Postby martinnn » 16 Nov 2006 15:15

Hardware Agencies Ltd. 1220 dundas street east is a great on hand supplier of Peterson International tools, and a list of other name brands. I think im am going to go for the "gust picks rubber handle set"$28.00us. Check out Peterson_International.com
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Postby UWSDWF » 16 Nov 2006 15:55

have you tried shopping there? you need to be a business
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DISCLAIMER:repeating anything written in the above post may result in dismemberment,arrest,drug and/or alcohol use,scars,injury,death, and midget obsession.
UWSDWF
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Postby martinnn » 17 Nov 2006 3:39

All they wanted was a company name, so i gave them one.
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Postby Romstar » 17 Nov 2006 5:15

martinnn wrote:All they wanted was a company name, so i gave them one.


Talk about lax.

I mean in Ontario its not illegal or anything to sell to the general public, its just sorta frowned upon.

Normally if they can't find your "business name" they ask you for your tax number, or your business registration number. A few of them want both.

Still in all though, its cool you found a local. Keep going in and buying normal stuff and sooner or later, they won't care what else you buy.

Romstar
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Postby martinnn » 17 Nov 2006 23:47

They wanted the name to they could have me in the computer as a customer.
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Postby Romstar » 18 Nov 2006 0:41

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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