weird sargent IC's

[grim]

a few days ago, i was asked to do an opening on a door that had a sargent IC lock. i don't recall any of the particulars of this lock (LA / LL / RA / whatever). but i was working it forward with no luck and consequently decided to work it backwards with thoughts to spinning the plug once it popped.

and surprise of surprises... the core started to slide out. i had picked the control!! now the picking of the control doesn't really surprise me too much, but what really got my attention was the fact that i was working it backwards when it hit. working an IC lock backwards should (theoretically) seat the core shouldn't it?

has anyone else had any similar (or just plain weird) experience with sargent IC's?

[Shrub]

What do you mean by working it forwards and backwards?

[unbreakable]

I think I may have an explanation, give my camera a while to charge and I'll upload some pictures.

Unbreakable

[What]

What do you mean by working it forwards and backwards?

clockwise / counter clockwise.

[grim]

What do you mean by working it forwards and backwards?

picking in a forward -- typically a clockwise -- direction as opposed to backwards which is typically a counter-clockwise direction.

[unbreakable]

Well, this is the only SFIC in my collection, but I think it is different in opertion than a Best or similar IC.

Heres the front (sorry for the shotty photo )


Here's the back. The nib that holds the core into the housing is retracted.



Here's the back again, only this time the nib is out, and would normally secure the core into the housing.



Here's a view looking down with the nib out.



And here's one with the nib in.




As you can see, the control line is only present in one pinstack.





To retract the nib, the lock ust be picked to the control line, and then rotated to the left (counter-clockwise or backwards.)

A quick Vid. It has been picked to the control line, and then rotated to show the nib retraction.



Does this explain what maybe happened?
Unbreakable

[grim]

To retract the nib, the lock ust be picked to the control line, and then rotated to the left (counter-clockwise or backwards.)

Does this explain what maybe happened?
Unbreakable

as a famous cartoon cat used to say... "that sounds logical."

i'll have to file that away for future reference. all other IC's i've dealt with (mostly falcon) had to be rotated clockwise to get the core to pop. unbreakable, you are... WOW. that was one seriously impressive answer.

[LockNewbie21]

Ahh your form Pa, i am 15 mins from the Penn states Brks campus.

That sargent key way is all i see around here, i forget the keyway though.

They had multitudes of them in a building we remodeled, i was praying to find a box of them for the trash.. but they did'nt repin the locks. So no luck.

But the mortice on the back door was ready to fall off

[unbreakable]

To retract the nib, the lock ust be picked to the control line, and then rotated to the left (counter-clockwise or backwards.)

Does this explain what maybe happened?
Unbreakable

as a famous cartoon cat used to say... "that sounds logical."

i'll have to file that away for future reference. all other IC's i've dealt with (mostly falcon) had to be rotated clockwise to get the core to pop. unbreakable, you are... WOW. that was one seriously impressive answer.

Anytime!
Glad I could help!


Unbreakable

[grit1]

I have a Sargent LFIC core somewhere in my collection that uses a different scheme than SFIC "master ring" style [yes I know master ring is different but it's a close approximation when compared to Schlage's LFIC control technique]. The LFIC style has a retaining lug that spins counter-clockwise for removal and is three pins long. It works much the same way as SFIC but only three pins, the three pins in the middle [3,4,5 or 2,3,4, can't remember exactly.] We had them in the highschool I went to. I never figured out their control key because the system was based on Sargent Signature so blanks were difficult, but it wouldn't be too hard to core any lock given that you already have the top level master key. You'd be able to get it in <9^3 keys.

[unbreakable]

I have a Sargent LFIC core somewhere in my collection that uses a different scheme than SFIC "master ring" style [yes I know master ring is different but it's a close approximation when compared to Schlage's LFIC control technique]. The LFIC style has a retaining lug that spins counter-clockwise for removal and is three pins long. It works much the same way as SFIC but only three pins, the three pins in the middle [3,4,5 or 2,3,4, can't remember exactly.] We had them in the highschool I went to. I never figured out their control key because the system was based on Sargent Signature so blanks were difficult, but it wouldn't be too hard to core any lock given that you already have the top level master key. You'd be able to get it in <9^3 keys.

Cool

Pictures would be nice, if possible