Ethics Question

[jimb]

I will sometimes enter a vehicle after opening it, like Raccoon says if the alarm goes off, or I will also enter if I have opened the rear passenger door, only to either get their keys or to unlock the drivers door. I always hand the keys to the owner after retrieving them and I've never had anyone refuse to pay. I did have one guy talk me down to $50 for a $55 unlock.

I NEVER enter anyone’s house after unlocking it.

If I see evidence that someone has tried to unlock the vehicle then they must sign a waiver that states there was an attempted opening prior to my arrival and I'm not responsible for ANY damage.

I always open the passenger side doors, usually the back one if available. If any one has tried to unlock the vehicle they usually go after the front doors, most of the time it's the driver’s side. This lowers the chance I will get blamed for someone else’s damage.

The few that complain about the price after I open their car in just a few seconds? I tell them that they were paying for the trip there and back to where I was and gas. Sometimes I even tell them the unlock is free!

[the desert rat]

hi all
9 times out of ten they are pulled in to a space that can be blocked with your service truck. when they dont want to pay where are they gonna go?
smile politley call the cops and watch them scramble for there wallets

[Raccoon]

Pulling behind their vehicle is a good idea, especially if you can park there legally, such as their personal drive.

I have had one customer comment "That only took you a minute, you're making more than me" and I replied "Well, you did call Get In Quick (my business name) you could have called Get In Later. *smile*" and that shut them up.

I also forgot to mention, I often ask "Did you attempt to open the vehicle yourself?" and if yes I note on their same invoice under the Notes section "Customer attempted to use a coat hanger before arrivial" and I draw a line under it and have them initialize. This takes away any liability for coat hanger related damage they may try to accuse me of later on.

[ufd538]

the funny thing about customers, if it takes too long, you don't know what you are doing and they deserve a discount. If it goes to quick, you are charging too much. can anyone give me the perfect prescribed amount of time for unlocking a car or making a key.

as for nonpayment, haven't ran into it yet, but I think it is a situational thing. If the guy is there with 5 mean looking buddies, and refuses to pay, I don't think I would throw his keys back in the car.

Seriously, most people are happy to see you, and are glad you are there to help them.

Speaking of annoying customers, how about the ones that call 5 locksmiths and pays the one who gets there the quickest.

Or on the phone they ask how quick you can be there, you say 15 minutes, and they say 'you can't get here quicker?'

Or, you go to make keys for a car, by some dumb luck find their keys under the seat, and they don't want to pay a service call. If they aren't hovering over me, I now take their keys, make copies, take the copies to them and tell them I am only charging a service call today. When they pay, I give them their keys. That is if they seem the type not to pay.

Anyways my favorite..."a thief would already be in." To which I reply 'a thief would bust out your window'

[jimb]

the funny thing about customers, if it takes too long, you don't know what you are doing and they deserve a discount. If it goes to quick, you are charging too much. can anyone give me the perfect prescribed amount of time for unlocking a car or making a key.

I think this will vary depending on the method and I won't go into details of opening, but about 70% the of cars I open will be opened in less than a minute. About 20% in less than 2 minutes. 9% in less than 5 minutes and about 1% in 15 to 20 minutes. That 1% in usually a 90's Cadillac. That's the car that gives me the most trouble. These are just estimates as I have never tried to track my opening times.

I don't make many keys so I'm a little slow, but the last one it took me 1 hour to do a Nissan Pathfinder.

[crazyman]

Why not ask for payment upfront when you get their?

[ufd538]

Yeah, I meant mostly making keys is what may take too long....cars almost always open quickly, unless it is a highend car and then you might be looking at 5 minutes.

the other day I had a guy flip on me when I made a key for his toyota tacoma in 5 minutes. The price wasn't a problem on the phone, just after I did it quickly. Love those determinators.

I don't ask for payment first, because like I said it is hardly a problem. Plus I don't want to jinx myself. You know, like when you go to do a quick job and take your bill pad with you, and then it turns into a very long job. Or on the way to a job you are thinking about the job after, because the first one is going to be easy....and then it is not. But most of all I think it seems to give a better image to the customer, if taking their money is not the first thing on your mind. But if it would become a problem, then of course I would collect first.

[Raccoon]

Why not ask for payment upfront when you get their?

For one, this does nothing to take care of customers who "don't need your service" when you arrive. Secondly, it's very bad form to charge a customer before you have delivered your goods. If you fail to perform, you have to pay them back. This can be difficult or impossible with credit card payments. ALSO, if you accept Visa, it's illegal to charge a customer before services have been rendered.

Don't waste your time trying to collect before servicing. It's a hassle and unnecessarily harasses your customer, leading to lose popularity and business.

I for one have not had problems collecting payment.

[2octops]

Here's how it works around here.

I quote the price and the fact that it is cash only on car calls. If they agree, then I go unlock the passengers door. The reason for unlocking the passengers door is usually people that try it themselves will try the drivers door. If they break anything or knock off a linkage, I never touched that door.

The next thing I do is get the keys. If they are in her purse or if they have to dig for them, I ask them for the keys so I can "make sure the lock is ok on the door I was working on." Always get the keys.

Next getting paid is usually easy, but if they do start anything, I try to joke around with them for a second to see if they are serious about not wanting to pay. If they are, I tell them that they can either pay, or lock their keys back inside the car. If the keys hit the floor and the door locks, they will have to pay me twice. That usually gets their attention, but I have relocked a bunch of cars over the years and left. Usually if I make it all the way inside my van and start to leave before they change their mind, I just tell them no thanks that if I wanted hassle and stress, I would have stayed married and leave.

I've tried calling the police and around here, they will not do anything for me even though I do work for their PD on a regular basis.

Just a side note, I know a guy that would toss the customers keys in the woods or bushes and leave if they refused to pay. He did that to the wrong person one day and they called the police to him. He was picked up for destruction to personal property because he broke a keychain (maybe) when he tossed the keys.

[Shrub]

When fitting door locks i keep the keys and hand them over to the customer when they hand me the fee,

On opening cars i will let them do as they wish once the car is open ie look for the cheque book in the boot or ring their husbands etc to say ive got them in, i go get my invoice book and get payment,

All my advertiseing quotes the price for unlocks so they know the price before i turn up,

If there was ever someone who just drove away after a vehicle opening i would simply report their number plate to the police and say they have driven off without paying,

Everyones got a good side and a bad side, a opening with no damage at a very good price hasnt been questioned yet,

If price verses time is mentioned i simply say they pay a callout fee and they pay for the knowledge not the time,

Ive done cars in mere seconds but the price of cars today whats a small opening fee compared to a new window,

I wouldnt enter a property after opening unless invited and i often stand out in the rain writing my invoice out as they havent invited me in, i wouldnt throw the keys back in and lock the door again either, its bad customer relations,

What i do have is a small print on the invoices that they sign which states that any unpaid for locks can be removed again at will but ive never had to use it, obviously i cant pick the locks and break in and remove the locks because they havent paid so its pretty obsolete to a non paying customer but its there as a warning and deterant all the same,

[Raccoon]

I have to agree with your practice Shrub. It's not only good customer relations, but allows you to be more relaxed around your customers without practicing being on guard and suspicious all the time.

The only thing I'd ammend is that I do hand over the keys to new locks installed just after I fit them, because I'd like my customers to try out the doors and give me any feedback about the work I just did. It allows them to catch any mistakes before I put my tools away, such as having over-tightened a KIK which results in the latch not springing back when the knob has been unlocked and turned, or should the key feel rough when turned one way but not the other due to generic pins or rough tolerences in my cuts.

It's just best to get any requests for touch-ups out of the way before I put away my tools and accept their money.

[ufd538]

yeah, as stated earlier, I do not ask for payment up front.

I almost always make the customer a spare door key. I figure if they can pay 40 bucks to get their car open, I can spare a blank that costs usually no more than 50 cents to give them hope that it won't happen again. I believe this is great for P.R. Aside from going that extra step, you are providing something a tow truck, cop, cannot, and something most locksmith would not bother to provide.

But this works well in two ways, when I open the car, I either grab their keys, or have them do it, explain to them I am going to cut them an extra door key, go and cut the key, and hand over their keys as they hand over payment.

So aside from getting payment, you are also working on good customer relations. The only time I don't cut copies is if they are in a hurry, if they say it is not necessary because they have copies, or they have been a pain in the butt(i.e. if I have to wait 20 minutes for them to arrive at the car, etc.)

Sometimes I may not if it is a hike back to the van, or I tell them, they can come to my van to get a copy.

[lockdr]

It may be a good sales tool to carry some of those little magnetic box thingies that go under the fender/bumper so they can hide the spare key "...So you won't have to call me..." Of course they WILL call you because they will forget where they put the key, etc.

[ufd538]

Oh yeah another Idea...we carry those in our shop, but personally I like fool proof, so here is what I will recommend...electrical zip ties. I hear too many people saying the box came off the car, and I don't want people expecting a free lockout because of it. Granted this is probably due to cheap magnetic boxes, and/or poor placement. In the shop we recommend to all who buy that they need to put it on a clean flat surface.

A quality box will stay if put in the right place.

Personally, I carry so much crap on my van, I do not want to carry these as well. I can't keep the stuff I need in proper order, so why add extra crap. But I do have an assortment of electrical zip ties, and if you fasten a key to a car with one of these, the key will definitely not come off. I have also taken the time to fasten a key to the car after opening the car, ussually for women. If it is a guy I give him the ties, and he can crawl on the ground.

[David Swearingen]

Some shops have solved the problem of non-paying customers, and those who find a way to unlock the car themselves and drive off before the locksmith arrives, by doing this: When the customer calls for service, they get a charge card number and they explain that there is a trip charge that will apply regardless of whether the car is open when they get there. Unless the card holder puts up a ruckus, charge card companies process the charges whether there is a signature or not, so the lock shop usually ends up collecting even when the customer has flown the coop.