Part Stability

[soho]

It is a common practice to use a "grinder" to create picks out of high-carbon-steel. I do not believe this is a reliable practice for establishing long term component stability. The friction which shapes the pick component out of steel leaves micro-fissures or tears, this deteriorates the quality and effectiveness of the steel. I do not believe an engineer worth his salt would approve of producing a 10,000 cycle lifespan component at little gain when over 100,000 cycles is standard if not necessary. I am also nearly certain that there has been no study of ground-pick longevity, especially considering that the picks do function to a great extent. Is anyone here aware of another method that would not leave the parts damaged, or if this is even a problem when exceeding 10,000 cycles?

[What]

IMO you are reading into the problem too much.

my home made picks work just as well as the manufactured picks i use.

i have not noticed the picks breaking or not correctly functioning, yes the grinder will cause some stress to the metal but so does the stamping process used at the factory.

[Romstar]

It is a common practice to use a "grinder" to create picks out of high-carbon-steel. I do not believe this is a reliable practice for establishing long term component stability. The friction which shapes the pick component out of steel leaves micro-fissures or tears, this deteriorates the quality and effectiveness of the steel. I do not believe an engineer worth his salt would approve of producing a 10,000 cycle lifespan component at little gain when over 100,000 cycles is standard if not necessary. I am also nearly certain that there has been no study of ground-pick longevity, especially considering that the picks do function to a great extent. Is anyone here aware of another method that would not leave the parts damaged, or if this is even a problem when exceeding 10,000 cycles?

Actually, you are incorrect as to the functional state of the steel after grinding. Many "professional" products are stamped from steel using air or hydraulic presses with stamps and dies. This results in far more structural damage to the pick at its shear surface than grinding.

Furthermore, the finish of a hand made pick is normally acomplished with files and then sanding and polishing. This often results in the removal of any material which may be subject to microfractional damage.

Bear in mind, that the natural crystaline structure of steel in general is prone to discontinuity, and you see that the forming methods used are not very likely to cause structural failure within the reasonable lifetime of the tool.

Even laser and water cutting result in fine fracture and fissuring along the surface edge of a part. About the only process that does not cause this problem is electro-chemical machining, and that process is prone to other issues such as undercut, and edging irregularities.

Each method of shaping a part has its mechanical and chemical draw backs. The real issue is whether or not these affect the the overall usability of the part in question.

Also, bear in mind that most picks are used on other materials which are significantly softer than the pick, and any flaws that may exist in the tool from the method of maunfacture become irrelevent.

Romstar

[LockNewbie21]

Dude they cost a $1.50, $2.50 if you need a handel

Trust me if i could afford a water jet machine.. I would donate the grinder to toys for tots

[Romstar]

Dude they cost a $1.50, $2.50 if you need a handel

Trust me if i could afford a water jet machine.. I would donate the grinder to toys for tots

You and me both brother.

Ever check the price on a "small" laser or water jet machine? It gets scary sometimes. Just for kicks, find a price on a surface grinder. That should scare you some.

Romstar

[LockNewbie21]

Ever check the price on a "small" laser or water jet machine? It gets scary sometimes. Just for kicks, find a price on a surface grinder. That should scare you some.

Already Looked most cost more than my car:shock:

My uncle tols my to by a mini metal press and die kit.. I've never heard of such a thing, he probobly had a hangover

[LockNewbie21]

Just for talk sake i hit ebay quick.. here is what water Jet machine turned up
http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-NEW-WATER-JET-M ... dZViewItem

Typed laser cutter


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Key-Cutt ... dZViewItem

Finnally LOOK! a water jet only 149,000.000 dollars, well that a relief

[LockNewbie21]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Z-613-NEW-Waterjet- ... dZViewItem

Sorry forgot link

[Romstar]

Exactly, and then people ask me why I don't just laser cut my picks, or use a water jet.

These things aren't the size of a laser printer, you can't put them on your desk.

Oh, and your uncle didn't have a hang over, but he didn't consider the cost of making all the dies you would need. You could use a straight edge punch, but that would be hard at these sizes.

There are only a few ways to make lock picks.

Custom stamping dies, laser and water cutters (water cutters have problms in some very tight angles), chemical or electro-chemical machining, and cutting by hand.

This is it. Picks are just too small and intricate to do any other way. No other machines can make these, and as anyone who has hand ground a pick can tell you, you can't finish them with a grinder. It always takes needle files or a die grinder (Dremel) and then some polishing.

Oh well, back to making money so I can buy a laser cutter.

Romstar

[Kaotik]

I'm gonna keep my mouth closed on this one.

[LockNewbie21]

[soho]

I see nothing wrong with being disagreed with en masse; however, when the majority of the posts simply agree with one person and make no further objective statements it is obvious the post-ers have become rude. I appreciate romstars original comment and his opinions; yet, it is not the response I was attempting to provoke. Allow me revise my original statement and say: If anyone has the capability of examining home made picks scientifically, such as in an industrial setting, for stability please come forth.

[VashTSPD]

Here's something I've always wanted,

http://www.ulsinc.com/versalaser/englis ... itnow.html

it's like...a printer. But with a laser. I bet you could juuust get it to cut through hacksaw blades if need be too. It's not cost effective at all if you're going to be making picks from it though.

And about LockpickNewbie's first ebay link....I'm still wondering if there's a reason for "only ships to the UK"

[Romstar]

Soho, I'll dig out the acid and the microscope and see what I can tell you. If you want to go deeper, I wil have to take some into the university, and see what they can tell me. Although, it won't be a lot different I imagine. Its a good train of thought though. Did I mention I hate acid?

Vash, the VersaLaser is a nice product, and it does have its uses, but acording to the company, even with repeated passes it will not cut through steel. Why that is I am not sure, and I do not have the money to experiment with it. Even though I did want to buy one for other purposes, its just too expensive for me right now.

Romstar

[Kaotik]

I personally in no way, form or fashion look at picks in a scientific point of view. However, I would in what metals and material I choose to use, not in what instruments used to make them which is what your OP was aiming towards.

If in any case I would choose a prospective on picks it would be of an engineering or machining prospective.

But that's just me.