Trouble with Brinks shrouded 6-pin

[Deathadder]

='( having trouble with a brinks shrouded security 6 pin, i think the thing that is getting me is that pins #5 and #6 are a high-lo combo, and my long hook cant get back that far, any advice as to getting past the security measures as well? because when i try to set the spool on 6, it bumps the 5 past the shear line, i think i need to make a custom pick for this one but i dont have a grinder any advice?




Ps: srry again for not being on for a while, (school and the like)

[Romstar]

Reach to the rear, and try to set that one first. Or you could over lift it, and then set the rest.

I have had a few locks with that low then high combo trick, and most of the time, I just reach in with a decent hook, pop it up, and then slide back under the previous pin, and come back with another pick like a diamond.

Never be afraid to switch your picks.

Romstar

[Deathadder]

but i likes mah hooks =D

[iNtago]

ha brinks shrouded what fun its a very good lock 6 pins 5 seraded tops and 5 bottoms not a noob lock

[Deathadder]

lol, the funny thing is that you can very clearly see the serations on the bottom pins if you just look at em, i saw those and i was like "finally a good hard lock to work on" but now its just pissing me off ='(

[Romstar]

It will always annoy you.

Don't discount your diamonds. They can be very, very useful picks.

Romstar

[iNtago]

i forgot to mechion that mine has a very good hi-low combo.

i tryed to get a easy one but they cover up the keys with a blue tube so i was stuck with a unpickable lock at the time (not no more )

anyways i used a slightly steeper dimand pick worked like a charm... so did the bagotas... somehow

still mad at the blue tube,
iNtago

[raimundo]

there is a lot of talk on this forum from people who think that the diamond is a rake, it is not, you should make your own diamonds, commercial ones don't have much diamond protruding above the thick shafts, but the diamond is capable of interacting with two pins at once, put two pins in a plug and reach the diamond in there, when the peak of the diamond is between the two pins, moving it just a little will cause one pins to rise and the other to fall, exactly what you need in a high low situation, and yes, with the peak betweent the pins, it will interact on two pins, just at the curve of a hook will sometimes interact on a pin not intended, but with the peak under a single pin, you are single pin picking. Make your own diamond, the commercial ones are too thick shafted and too timid in there peaks. thin the shafts, make the peak more acute, and sand it well to eliminate problems in the warding and keyways.

[Romstar]

All that talk about diamonds being similar to rakes is because most people discount the things right from the beginning, or they look at them as a two in one tool.

The diamond is a very, very effective pick, and even with a tiny tip it can work very well.

Romstar

[Bud Wiser]

IMHO, I think the reason most people consider the diamond either a rake or rake related, is because it is related to the rake

The nice thing about the diamond is it can be used to SPP and rake with out switching picks! But I definitely agree with raimundo this time that most commercial rakes are not really the best with few exceptions. You can make better.

Now to play the devils advocate!

Some people consider diamonds inferior picks.

You won't find a diamond in the Falle set, because John Falle doesn't believe diamonds are that good. He believes hooks are better and can do any thing a diamond can do only better. You won't find a diamond in the Majestic Navagator set either, just a great assortment of hooks and specialty picks.

In my own limited experience, I tend to agree that there isn't any thing you can't do that a hook can accomplish, including slight raking of pins.

Bottom line, use whatever works for you. But don't be afraid to try some thing different.

So there you have it, another unbiased even if totally incorrect post by me

[Hardliner]

I never really was a big half-diamond fan (most of the time the only pick sitting out on my table is a standard Peterson hook), but since I can pick most of my current locks in my sleep with that hook I've switched to using the half-diamond lately since I initially had a hard time opening any locks with it.

At first it took me a lot longer to open locks that are no problem with the hook, but then a funny thing happened -- I stopped trying to use the half-diamond as a hook and began exploring the characteristics particular to it. Now I find that I like it a lot more, especially the ability to manipulate multiple pins at once. Some locks I can now open really quickly due to the ability to do a little light raking in with the single pin work.

[parapilot]

The diamond is a very, very effective pick, and even with a tiny tip it can work very well.

Romstar

Agree 100% Its a great tool for SPP and raking. A diamond flows better for me than a hook in tight locks. I use both types of tool.

[Genesis]

i personally like my half diamond ten times better than my hook

[raimundo]

I have been making some sets of picks that are a conflation of the diamond and the hook, think of a diamond with the point undercut like a hook and thus shortened a bit, so that it is less likely to interact with a pin ahead of the pin that the peak is under. the sets I have made and some on this site have them, are in the bogota handle/tensor style, and the two pieces in a pair are one for locks mounted north american style and the othe for locks mounted in the euro style. I call this design 'ola' or 'wave' in spanish. I have used some of these in the smaller american padlock keyways, and find that it can be used in a different way, the pick can be inserted at an angle to accomodate the pick tip and shaft best in a part of the keyway that is more open at an angle due to warding, then when it is under the pin you wish to pick, you can rotate it to the upward position, and while doing this lift the pin, with excellent feedback and excellent working characteristics against spool pins. Since there are others on the site at least since defcon in vegas last summer who have these, I am a bit surprised that no one seems to have mentioned them yet.
The hook is designed for lifting one pin, and either has a rounded or flat top surface, the diamond uses a 45 degree leading edge to work under pins as you move it forward, and this is much better than the hook in restrictive keyways, but there is no good reason why the point on the end of the diamond is as low as the rest of the the bottom of the pickshaft, so I cut it off at an angle, creating a more hooklike diamond, A pick that will advance more easily into a restricted keyway, because at least part of its tip will get under and cam the pins up, pins may set as they ride up the cam surface, or may be lifted on the peak, or allowed to ride down the back surface just as they would on a hook. Apparently the people who have had them did not find them worth comment, possibly because they have ignored them and not discovered how useful they are.

[Exodus5000]

First off - Ray, is this the style of pick you're describing?


Secondly, after reading this discussion on the half diamond, I've been wondering if it might be able to help develope something stylistically for me. Let me explain, I've developed a picking technique of "front to back" picking with my short hook. This is because I can brace the tip of my hook against the pin behind the pin i'm picking. This allows me to keep my "footing" in the lock a little better. Picking back to front with my short hook is cumbersome because the graduated rise in the pick creates a fuzzy image in my head of what pin stack I'm pulling past.

I wonder, since it's arguably better to pick back to front, that with the angle a half diamond offers I'd be able to find my way easier picking back to front with it.