Bypass techniquest for the Emergancy services???

[JackNco]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

So come on people i know its early but what do you all think?

John (Off 2 uni back to check on this thread in a few hours)

[unjust]

have discussed this (mostly due to working large venue security together) -every- emergency access they've ever done has been destructive, except for interior door privacy locks which more than a few emts and cops carry the generic "key" bypass tool for

[horsefeathers]

Personally, if i ring the ambulance because I am suffering severe chest pains........I want the crew in by whatever is their fastest means. I dont want the fannying around digging out the right profile of bump key etc. Just smash the door in (or window). Property can be replaced but you only get one life.

just my opinion

regards

[Anero]

i have to agree NDE isn't the best solution when lives are at stake, most of the time NDE is too slow when you can just kick the door down or break a window out

[numeroquatro]

I think it would be a good idea to teach Emergency Services personnel NDE. You can't really have too many options. Not all Paramedics/EMTs are of kick door down stature either. Where I am from there are not enough firefighter to go around.

Today I passed my practical EMT test. Moday is the written... Wish me luck!

[JackNco]

I think it would be a good idea to teach Emergency Services personnel NDE. You can't really have too many options. Not all Paramedics/EMTs are of kick door down stature either. Where I am from there are not enough firefighter to go around.

Today I passed my practical EMT test. Moday is the written... Wish me luck!

Finlay some one agrees with me. and good luck

[unjust]

it's just that destructive entry is 99% of the time MUCH faster.

in emergency services the key thing is -emergency-

the single fastest way into a car is popping a window. no two ways about it. that is NOT to ignore that a number of jurisdictions have officers carry lockout kits in their cars and will happily do non emergency lockouts, however if an emt -needs- to get into a car they -need- to do so NOW, not in 1 minute non destructively.

if a person is non responsive in a locked car the 30 seconds for a good/lucky NDE is a significant survival percentage for a heart attack to get defibed.

[JackNco]

oh ya i agree. but in that 1% of cases where its not faster. for example where tey cant get the door open. a security door or an internal door, could be made of oak and locked from the inside in a tight hallway.

That 1% is a fairly significant number of peopel per year

Im not saying that they shodul be worried about costs of doors and locks im just sayig in some cases it might actualy be quicker.

John

[Anero]

yes true to a point, but if you are dealing is a good "security door" it's most likely going to have a better then normal lock on it and NDE is going to be that much more harder. thats when you go for a window don't have to be 6 foot 230lbs to take out a window.

[devildog]

it's just that destructive entry is 99% of the time MUCH faster.

Yeah, and that's really all there is to it. Emergency services have BEAUCOUP ways to get in, and they're all VERY fast; believe me they needn't mess around with picks or pickguns or bumpkeys or any such stuff. Why would they want to waste time with that when they can just use a 40 pound battering ram, or a highway hooligan, or a breaching charge, or a pneumatic ram, or hydraulic boltcutters, or an angle grinder, etc etc etc. Look up SIGMA and Iowa American if you're really interested in seeing the cool stuff--in fact, if you have LSS, just look up SIGMA in the index or go to the chapter on destructive entry.

[JackNco]

se a 40 pound battering ram, or a highway hooligan, or a breaching charge, or a pneumatic ram, or hydraulic boltcutters, or an angle grinder, etc etc etc.

I not sure what its like in the states. i was basing what i was saying on how it is here in the UK. the paramedics really don't have that gear on board here.

Well either way it seems most people think it would be a waste of time. and although i don't think it would be. and think were are situations where it would be useful ill except defeat.

John

[Bittersweet]

I suppose when it comes to police with search warranties, or medical emergencies that are not in the "every second counts" stage NDE being taught could be useful, but then you would also have people taking those courses just ot learn NDE techniques, and that would be bad. If it was actually a Fire or "Every second counts, why aren't you here yet" situation, I know that I would prefer the Medics and Firemen to bash my nice pretty doors to pieces to save my family/myself.
Besides, if it's a bad enough fire that you need firemen to bash your door in, I think you have other things on your mind than your door.

[HeadHunterCEO]

bump keys

the ambuance guys and girls i know have a big pipe wrench and a crowbar like the fireman

[JackNco]

bump keys

the ambuance guys and girls i know have a big pipe wrench and a crowbar like the fireman

Like i said i was basing it on the UK and they dont over here as far as im aware. ive never seen one used or herd of one used anyway.

[JackNco]

bittersweet why would it be bad if people were sent on NDE courses. its already been established that bumping can be learned easily if someone wanted to use it in a bad way... the informations already out there may as well put it to some goo use.

John