Let's make a new tool-"Picked lock pin decoder"

by **Lauren** » 1 Dec 2006 20:36

I've thought of making something simuliar to the piano wire depth reading method. And I would have to agree, the wire would get bent out shape to easily. This concept does have merits. If one could only insert an object through the keyway, and that object could be repeatedly controled to rest on the tip of the bottom pin, then we would have a winner. Let's keep putting out heads together and thanks for the responses.

Lauren.

by **zeke79** » 1 Dec 2006 21:55

Here's an idea I threw together real quick. Pin stacks would be probed one at a time. Drawing based on a standard master large pin lock and M1 blank.

www.locksportarchives.com/decoder.pdf

by **Shrub** » 2 Dec 2006 10:54

Zeke,
Your idea is good and one that most (or at least i did) fall into early on in the quest to make a decoder,
What happens if your first pin is lower than the next one? your feeler wont pass under the low pin so tell you that one is a certain measurement but then the feeler for the next size wont fit under the first low pin,

It would work better if you were overlifting the pin stacks to their maximum height on an unpicked lock but it would still get jammed up,

This is not a new idea to make a decoder for a picked lock and you can find litery loads of ideas on the patent site but ive been making a couple of such like decoders but still have yet to fine tune the operation of them, mine are also vehicle based right now but i did attempt one for a household cylinder,

The way ive done it without goign into pics etc is to modify a key blank, cut the key to its owest cut all the way across the blank, cut a groove along the edge a few mm deep so a wiper insert can be fitted in,

Make a small dimond on the end of the wiper insert and then with a series of holes or pivot points or some other idea to step it (ive used nothches on the wiper insert and a pin on the key) you can pull the 'pick' out the lock and place it on each picked pin stack, you then swing the arm down until it stops, this then has a gradiant on the side of the key which allows you to read out the height of the stack thus decodeing the lock,

by **zeke79** » 2 Dec 2006 12:26

Shrub,

You only have a pin in one position at a time so the cut depths never matter. The probe hides under the key surface which is cut at a #7 cut. If you insert the slimmest probe and it will not lift the pin, you know it is a 7 cut.

With only one probe pin installed at a time, it does not matter if you have a #6 pin in front of a #2 pin.

by **Shrub** » 2 Dec 2006 14:59

Ah ok i think i misunderstood you, are you meaning you only set one stack at a time?

by **zeke79** » 2 Dec 2006 20:01

You only probe on stack at a time. You work from the thickest probe to the thinnest. Once you find the probe that can fully lift the stack probe pin you have decoded that picked chamber. You then remove the tool from the lock and put the pin stack probe in another chamber and repeat the process. You will eventually decode all pins in the lock and can cut a new key by code at that point.

by **Deathadder** » 3 Dec 2006 1:05

i came up with an idea, not sure if it will work, but i believe it will if it will fit

. You guys know what laser length finders are right? Those things that measure really small distances using really small lasers? Well you put 5-6 on a rod and insert it in the keyway, you choose on a little LED thing what lock style it is and you push "ON". The lasers will read the distances and then compute it to cuts depending on what lock model you chose. This would be an extremely easy to use tool, but im not sure if the laser thingys would fit. (as of today at least, because everyone is obsessed with making stuff smaller and easier). It might be expensive, but it will no doubt be the most accurate and easiest to use.(i hope/think)

by **grim** » 3 Dec 2006 1:31

Deathadder wrote:You guys know what laser length finders are right?

they aren't accurate over short distances. nice thought though.

by **2octops** » 3 Dec 2006 2:01

It's been done a few times in a few different ways.

Many moon ago, someone created a long, thin tool that entered the bottom of the cylinder keyway. In the center of that tool, was a small piece of spring steel that was angled up. On the other end was a small micrometer and wheel to turn, pushing the wire out the end of the tool at a steep, upward angle.

Basically, you pick the lock, insert tool and read the distance from the bottom of the keyway to the bottom of the pin, then decode or cut with micrometer attachment.

I have not seen one of these in years, untill about 2 years ago.

Someone has reinvented it and made it out of aluminum and made it work on wafer locks instead of pin tumbler locks.

The one for VW/Audi works great as does the BMW version. The drawback is they are around $500 each.

As far as having it trace the pattern out on a sheet of paper....that one is too funny. We were eating diner in KY one night with friends (business diner) and one of them had that thing. Someone was trying to get him to sell it, so they sent him one to play with. We had all had a few beverages before we started playing with it. I remember it came with the clippers to cut the key with to match the paper version.

That was one of the most awkward tools I have ever tried to use (and make work) sober or not.

by **maxxed** » 3 Dec 2006 2:28

zeke79 wrote:, but I cannot impression well. I have to have a perfect fixed light source to do it. That I am almost positive is cause by my eyesight.

This tool could very well help people like me.

Try different types or colors of light, different types of light bulbs have a different overall color and your eye may respond better to a light with either more blue, red, or green hue

by **Schuyler** » 3 Dec 2006 14:29

maxxed wrote:
zeke79 wrote:, but I cannot impression well. I have to have a perfect fixed light source to do it. That I am almost positive is cause by my eyesight.

This tool could very well help people like me.

Try different types or colors of light, different types of light bulbs have a different overall color and your eye may respond better to a light with either more blue, red, or green hue

Jimmie, our favorite canadian frog actually brought a device to do exactly this to the Dutch Open. I completely forgot about it, I'll try to find a photo.

by **Shrub** » 3 Dec 2006 14:47

I think youll find it was my invention/prototype and i would prefer no pictures of my prototype on site, it was given to Jimmie for trials and there has already been a MK2 since and a Mk3 will be a vast improvement,

by **maxxed** » 3 Dec 2006 19:46

Shrub wrote:I think youll find it was my invention/prototype and i would prefer no pictures of my prototype on site, it was given to Jimmie for trials and there has already been a MK2 since and a Mk3 will be a vast improvement,

Man I just use a variety of flashlights with different bulbs

by **d_goldsmith** » 4 Dec 2006 7:17

Here is a much simpler idea that I came up with

This isn't a functioning model, just an example I through togethor. You would need a tube small enough to fit in a key hole, and you would want to be very carefull and presice with how you bent and set the wire in the tube.

The steps to use would be:
Pick the lock
rotate the plug 90 degrees
use a hook to make sure all pins are against the hull (shearline)
mark your hook at each pin
transfer those markings to the tube
insert the tube a pin width less than the markings
push the wire in until you feel resistance
mark the wire
repeat through all pins
pull out the tube
move the wire to each marking and measure with a micrometer
measure the blank with a micrometer
subtract the wire gap measurement from the blank measurement

Here's a video of it on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8L9syyL1p0

by **d_goldsmith** » 4 Dec 2006 22:34

No replies

What do you guys think?

Let's make a new tool-"Picked lock pin decoder"

wire depth reader '999" key

lasering a lock

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