Who makes these Best IC blanks?FM blank compatibility issues

[WOT]

If they have the same keyway designation, I thought they're supposed to be the same, but real life experience shows otherwise.


That's a Star IC blank, keyway FM. It will not enter an "F" keyway.


I don't know who makes this one, but it enters "F" just fine and it's very fragile. If there's a deep cut near the bow and you have to torque the key to drive the door latch mechanism, it will break eventually. Could anyone tell who manufactures these from the design? I used to think this is a Star, but now having marked Star brand, I am thinking it isn't a Star.


Left = Star FM. Right = unknown make FM

Are they both within tolerance and perhaps just on the other ends of allowable tolerance? Who makes the most accurate FM blanks?


This one's not an FM, but it is supposedly Ilco, back a decade or two when Best keys used to be stamped "It Is Unlawful to Copy This Key". Can someone confirm?

[xequar]

I am reasonably certain that the blank on the right is an Ilco FM keyway blank. There are a couple of manufacturers, Ilco being the more notable of them, that make the FM keyway blanks, which are intended not as a replacement for F keyway, but instead as a sort of "master" blank to fit a variety of keyways. To my knowledge, Best does not offer any sort of multi-milled "master" blank, FM or otherwise.

There is actually a thread HERE about what it fits, with the consensus being that no one, including Ilco themselves, know what it can fit. Given that Best locks tend to take a lot of abuse during the course of their lives, it would seem the best thing to do would be to abandon the FM concept and stock the appropriate keyway's blank.

[UWSDWF]

I am reasonably certain that the blank on the right is an Ilco FM keyway blank. There are a couple of manufacturers, Ilco being the more notable of them, that make the FM keyway blanks, which are intended not as a replacement for F keyway, but instead as a sort of "master" blank to fit a variety of keyways. To my knowledge, Best does not offer any sort of multi-milled "master" blank, FM or otherwise.

There is actually a thread HERE about what it fits, with the consensus being that no one, including Ilco themselves, know what it can fit. Given that Best locks tend to take a lot of abuse during the course of their lives, it would seem the best thing to do would be to abandon the FM concept and stock the appropriate keyway's blank.

possibly the best first post i've read

[WOT]

I am reasonably certain that the blank on the right is an Ilco FM keyway blank.

You mean you think this one is an Ilco?


I am fairly certain that the very bottom picture with raised stamping is Ilco, but the one with recessed "DUPLICATION PROHIBITED" doesn't seem to match Ilco's design in catalog.

Ilco Catalog's design is consistent with the far bottom picture on the first post however.
http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key_systems/pd ... -HP%5D.pdf

[IC-Johnny]

I'm all but certain that is an ILCO "Look Alike" blank. I have some here that have the identical markings, but mine are for either an A keyway (part # 1A1A1) or a G keyway (part # 1A1G1).

[WOT]

I'm all but certain that is an ILCO "Look Alike" blank. I have some here that have the identical markings, but mine are for either an A keyway (part # 1A1A1) or a G keyway (part # 1A1G1).

which, "duplication prohibited" or "it is unlawful to duplicate this key" ?

[zeke79]

possibly the best first post i've read

I agree with you fully. An example of a moderators dream first post there......

[xequar]

I thank you all for your compliments...

Regarding the Ilco design, I know that Ilco at some point in recent time has made blanks with the markings in the OP's second picture as I have a box of Ilco "Silver" blanks in L keyway with the same imprinting. However, judging from my recent blank acquisitions, I am guessing that Ilco at some point changed the imprinting on their lookalike blanks, since I have a slew of G keyway blanks that are allegedly Ilco but have markings in the fashion of the OP's final picture.

Given what my blank inventory looks like, I am still inclined to believe the OP's original "mystery" blank is Ilco.

[IC-Johnny]

The ILCO "Look Alike" blanks that I have say "Duplication Prohibited" on the one side, and are smooth and blank on the other side They appear exactly as that example on the previous post.

[IC-Johnny]

I just triple checked my blank supply. Two years ago, I purchased 100 ILCO type 1A1A1 (for the BEST "A" keyway) and 300 1A1G1 blanks (for the BEST "G" keyway. I just threw the boxes away, but it was blue and white with the ILCO "Look Alike" part numbers right on the side of the box. The box also said "Silver Nickel" on it.
These blanks are at least two years old. They bear the design and the casting contains the words "Duplication Prohibited" on the one side. They are identical to the second picture, in WOT's first post in this thread.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/ ... nkkeys.jpg

ILCO may very well have changed the design in the past two years. I'll find out soon, I am going to re-order them again this week.

These blanks are of exellent quality, I use the "G" keyway very frequently. The keys, after being cut, are quite thin for the "G" keyway in particular. I have never had any of them break, and in several situatuions they are being used in a double deadbolt application. Depending upon the latch's tightness, the are frequently turned very very hard. They have shown absolutely no signs of twisting or cracking.

[WOT]

I just triple checked my blank supply. Two years ago, I purchased 100 ILCO type 1A1A1 (for the BEST "A" keyway) and 300 1A1G1 blanks (for the BEST "G" keyway. I just threw the boxes away, but it was blue and white with the ILCO "Look Alike" part numbers right on the side of the box. The box also said "Silver Nickel" on it.
These blanks are at least two years old. They bear the design and the casting contains the words "Duplication Prohibited" on the one side. They are identical to the second picture, in WOT's first post in this thread.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n13/ ... nkkeys.jpg

ILCO may very well have changed the design in the past two years. I'll find out soon, I am going to re-order them again this week.

These blanks are of exellent quality, I use the "G" keyway very frequently. The keys, after being cut, are quite thin for the "G" keyway in particular. I have never had any of them break, and in several situatuions they are being used in a double deadbolt application. Depending upon the latch's tightness, the are frequently turned very very hard. They have shown absolutely no signs of twisting or cracking.

I'm convinced that the unknown blanks I have are ilcos. Some years back, Best made blanks with the "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO DUPLICATE". They might have had an active design/utility patent or was hoping their patent application would be accepted, who knows. For the key to be "unlawful to duplicate" the blank would have to be protected by patent.

Here's a picture of old Best and ilco side by side:


Here's a new Best and ilco side by side:


ilco must be just following Best's latest style.

According to ilco catalog, these 1A1x1 series look-a-like blanks are made of nickel silver and their "siver line" series A1114x are made of brass and has a shiny nickel plating on top. These have the catalog # and ilco logo stamped, but doesn't have the "duplication prohibited" stamp.

I inspected OEM Best G & L keys to Ilco G & L blanks and I've observed the samething about the thickness. The top part that gets cut is 0.045" thick on ilcos, 0.050" thick on Bests. There's enough difference that you can tell by looking at them too.

[David Swearingen]

Best Lock's official explanation for "It is unlawful to duplicate this key" was to tell the customers, "YOU make it unlawful for your employees to duplicate this key." In other words, the institution owning the locks and issuing the keys should intruct the key holders that they are not allowed to make copies, upon pain of termination if necessary. Both die stamps ("It is unlawful..." and "Duplication Prohibited" were available on all keys for many years, and customers could choose either of these (or "BEST" or "Duplication of key prohibited, or "Security Key", or any of a dozen other stamps) if they cut their own keys. Customers without key machines, who got all their keys through the Factory Representative for their area, got whatever their rep chose as his standard. Most reps used whatever the factory suggested they use, which used to be "It is unlawful...". I have in my files an old factory memo to all reps, stating they should use "KS301 x KS292" unless requested otherwise. I suspect the factory changed their preference after getting their hand slapped for misrepresentation with the old wording.