Falle tension tools

[gostone]

The Falle tension tools seem pretty awesome, how do they compare to the traditional L shaped tension tools. Any opinions?

[bonez]

not used them myself,

but have heard they are a great bit of kit.

j.

[Shrub]

In my opinion they are a bit of a gimmick but do work, theres no lock ive found yet that must use them where a normal wrench wouldnt work,

[Exodus5000]

I've got a set, an I assume you're talking about the adjustable double prong tension wrenches. Well first I'll say that in my opinion double prong tension wrenches provide a great deal more control and feedback. With that said, I think the adjustable wrenches are a very nice tool with amazing versatility, control, and feedback. I don't think they're worth the price tag though. I suggest you build yourself one to see if you like the design. I posted the template for one a while back, here's the link:

viewtopic.php?t=16479

[Romstar]

They just plain aren't worth the price tag.

The same as Shrub as stated, while they can provide greater feedback in some locks, there isn't any lock where a normal style tension wrench won't work.

Too many people get caught up in the idea of having the Falle pick set. It's still the "king of the hill" so to speak, but to be honest, I never agreed with the no diamonds philosophy, and the tension tools, while working quite well are additional tool that aren't required.

You can try making your own, and see if you like them, but you will be much better served with a variety of fitted tension wrenches.

Romstar

[Krypos]

ive always considered falles to be the luxury set. like, you can drive a honda civic or a ford focus or whatever get around car you want and it works fine, but if you want to show off and look really cool, then you can buy a ferrari and drive that. its cool, but you dont need it, and it always comes with things you wont need, but are cool to have as an option.

[gostone]

I can see how you might think of them as an unnecessary gimmick, but the tension tools seem to have been well thought out. Considering the number of different tools in the basic set ( 50 tools )
I don't find the price to be unreasonable, most of the top pickers use Falle designs, or a modification of them. The cool TOOOL picks are based on the Falle design, and if you watch some of the european videos linked on TOOOL sites, and various places. You can see the influence in the Falle designs. Also in terms of tension tools, the basic set has a large selection of well made traditional torsion tools. Good value for the money..............

[lockjaw]

The Falle tension tools seem pretty awesome, how do they compare to the traditional L shaped tension tools. Any opinions?

There are actually three types of tension tools in the Falle-Safe Basic Pick Set:

Traditional 'L' shaped
Fixed two-prong
Adjustable two-prong

The Falle Tension Tool Set includes the last two types.

The 'L' shaped are about the same as the HPC and South Ord variety but the two-pronged are in a class of their own. They provide the best feedback and control of any tension tool that I've used. Certainly if you are a proficient single pin picker (SPP) you can get away with traditional 'L' type tension tools but the Falle tools make the task easier and quicker -- hence they are more effective and better tools. The additional feedback and control is unmatched by any 'L'- tension tool (even Peterson).

I reject the idea that they are a gimmick or that they are overpriced. Their functionality (enhanced feedback and control) suggests that they aren't a mere gimmick. Reasonablesness of price is to be assessed in terms of what you are receiving. The workmanship and materials of the Falle Basic Pick Set (and all the Falle-Safe tools for that matter) is superlative -- it is the best.

John Falle and his tools are the subject of much "sour grapes" on this forum. John Falle's tools are the best and his pin/wafer tumbling philosophy is worthy of serious consideration. John Falle is uncontestably the world's most prolific and ingenious lock decoding tools expert. Falle has the world's intelligence agencies eating out of the palm of his hand -- it is necessary to book a year in advance to attend one of his courses. The man also has years of in-the-field field covert entry experience: he was a Royal Marines Commando. The man knows what he is doing. With all due respect to the members of this forum there isn't any anyone on lockpicking101.com that is even a pimple on the backside of John Falle in terms of covert entry expereince and knowledge, picking and decoding tool design ingenuity and lockpicking proficiency. It's obsecene that anyone on this forum would even proffer a critical position on the man and his tools. We risk sounding like a bunch of deluded wankers.

Specifically regarding the "half-diamonds are useless" philosophy, it is an opinion shared by Barry Wels in so far as the HOPE/TOOOL set does not include any diamonds, half-circles, circles and double-circles. Certainly, it is possible to develop SPP proficiency using a half-diamond but this is besides the point. It is possible to develop SPP proficiency using safety pins. Even prior to my exposure to John Falle and Barry Wel's preference for hooks and fingers I didn't find the half-diamond to be especially suited to SPP or raking. The idea of pressing a rounded (and sometimes pointed) pin with a pointed tool is nonsensical. Given that we want positive contact with each pin when SPPing why not use a pick with a flat or even recessed tip? Why make things hard for yourself? Also, the half-diamond doesn't lend itself well to working in restrictive keyways and it can't be used as a fulcrum except in the crudest of fashions.

Aren't the chances good that the guy that has opened locks under the possibility of death -- or at least capture by a hostile government -- knows the best way to pick pin tumbler locks in a hurry?

[illusion]

I haven't used mine more than a few times - I find a simple L wrench works just as well. I did try quite hard to get used to them, but I have never come to like them.

I have a great deal of respect for John Falle's tools, and some of his decoders are so very well thought out. I do however think that you could do without the adjustable wrenches. I like the selection of hooks in the set and I used those all the time, but I simply found the dual pronged wrenches annoying to use. The wrenches don't stay in the locks, you have to look for the right sized one, which half the time doesn't fit very well anyway.

With all due respect to the members of this forum there isn't any anyone on lockpicking101.com that is even a pimple on the backside of John Falle in terms of covert entry expereince and knowledge, picking and decoding tool design ingenuity and lockpicking proficiency

Prove this or please, respectably shut up. You clearly have no idea some of the people on this forum so stop making unfounded statements. You simply do not know, and if you did you'd never think of making such a statement.

It's obsecene that anyone on this forum would even proffer a critical position on the man and his tools. We risk sounding like a bunch of deluded wankers.

It is funny, 'deluded wanker' is exactly the word I would use to describe you after reading that generalisation you made.

Specifically regarding the "half-diamonds are useless" philosophy, it is an opinion shared by Barry Wels in so far as the HOPE/TOOOL

So just because Barry and John support this view, it instantly becomes correct? I'm sorry, but that's so funny.

You actually brought this on yourself, and I apologise for making my opinion heard.

*YOU* are deluded.

[lockjaw]

Prove this or please, respectably shut up. You clearly have no idea some of the people on this forum so stop making unfounded statements. You simply do not know, and if you did you'd never think of making such a statement.

See my reponse to your post in the other Falle thread.

It is funny, 'deluded wanker' is exactly the word I would use to describe you after reading that generalisation you made.

As you please.

Specifically regarding the "half-diamonds are useless" philosophy, it is an opinion shared by Barry Wels in so far as the HOPE/TOOOL

So just because Barry and John support this view, it instantly becomes correct? I'm sorry, but that's so funny.

No, it doesn't become correct because they stated it. It is true irrespective of it being stated. It's a perfectly reasonable position that happens to be shared by two authorities in the field. Wels and Falle are two credible people that happened to articulate that position.

Additionally, my point was if Falle is wrong about half-diamond picks then so to is Wels. I was addressing the apparent double standard.

You actually brought this on yourself, and I apologise for making my opinion heard.

Brought what specifically on myself? It's not like I'm having my toe nails removed with pliers. All that is happening is that some online rabble is upset because I dared to say that no real covert entry authority would post on this forum. So what?

*YOU* are deluded.

Why don't you apply your own stanadrd of justification to your statements? Can you substantiate the statement that I am deluded? Do you have any evidence to present which would disprove my contention that there are no covert entry experts of the calibre of Falle on this site? Romstar is like some low-rent tool manufacturer (with order fulfillment problems) that appears to specialise in lock pick handles, that fixes computers for a living and does some locksmithing on the side. Is that the covert entry expert that I've offended? Is that the cream of lockpicking101.com?

[Shrub]

Lockjaw, I was goign to pm you about your attitude but you obviously wouldnt listen so i say it here,

Stop your personal attacks or you will be removed from site, if you have an issue with a particular member take the actual issue up with them in private, your continued attacks against Romstar for example is totally out of order,

Airing your personal differances on the site is unacceptable,

Thread locked.