Lockpicktools Falle Type Picks

[timal]

I am now so temped to purchase the Falle set.
After using these:
http://www.lockpicktools.com/images/FSP-S3-600.jpg
I can finally start to SPP more. It is Much more fun than raking. I always had problems SPP with anything other than a Diamond. Now I can pop open locks I was thought I could only rake. I really am having fun with these picks.

[timal]

' locks I was thought '
locks I only thought

[Shrub]

Theres not goign to be a lot of differance to be honest, they look very simular, save your money and stick with the set you already have, the falle ones repeat and are doubled up so theres not as many picks in the set as it first looks,

[jiggler]

Shrub, Do you know where I could get Falle-type curved picks in the UK?

I know Safeventures do the Falle set but don't seem to sell the picks individually?

I could make some I guess but I'd rather buy one or two first to get the basic shape and I can make diferent raduis curves if I need them later on.

[Shrub]

The Falles only come as a set, ive heard that if your lucky you can get a replcement for a broken pick but only if your lucky,

Other than that i dont know, the ones at the start of this thread must be cheaper and easier to get hold of and most places send to the uk anyway,

Sorry i couldnt help much, its not somthing i look at buying often as i like my SO set and my Falle set just collects dust,

I did buy some lockmaster ones at the dutch open but ive not tryed them yet, tell a lie i tried one and thought they were too thin but other than that no real test,

[jiggler]

Thanks Shrub. I phoned safe Ventures quickly, just before I saw your reply and they confirmed they only come as set. I only really want the sweep picks so £130 +VAT for the set is too much really.

I've emailed the company in the link above asking for some info so hopefully it'll all work out.

Thanks for your help anyway

[gostone]

The Falle set is pretty well thought out, as well the safe ventures set includes lever lock picks, nice to have those. The price is not that bad, considering you are getting 50 tools. When I started, I made my own set, but decided I wanted a top quality commercial set. I also bought some Southord product ( quality and finishing... so... so.. ) The Falle set is probably in my opinion one of the most complete and useful sets available. Whay not get a set, and make duplicates of the more important ones you want, or use a template available online to make your own.
When I researched buying a set, I got two e-mails that convinced me, one was from a very well known european picker from TOOOL Netherlands, you may have seen him in some videos. He said they were an excellent set, and he had a set himself. The other e-mail was from an North American picker, also highly respected, who said the Falle set was excellent.
THAT'S good enough for me...........

[dmux]

http://www.safeventures.com/ is the only place i have ever seen that anyone could buy falles

[timal]

Shrub thanks for the information. The debate is still ongoing about these picks.

[jiggler]

gostone, i probably will get a set of these at some point as they do look great. all the tension tools are a big plus point for me. but I just can't afford it right now.

Krypos, I have PM'd you. Thanks

[lockjaw]

I am now so temped to purchase the Falle set.
After using these:
http://www.lockpicktools.com/images/FSP-S3-600.jpg
I can finally start to SPP more. It is Much more fun than raking. I always had problems SPP with anything other than a Diamond. Now I can pop open locks I was thought I could only rake. I really am having fun with these picks.

I used the Lock Pick Tools Falle-style picks before purchasing a genuine Falle Set. The Falle curve picks are much better than the immitations in terms of materials, workmanhip and design. The genuine items have more generous (and comfortable handles).

If your technique improved with the Lock Pick Tools curve picks then it will improve again with the Falle curve picks and two-pronged tension tools.

I'd give in to temptation the Falle Basic Pick Set is an exemplary set.

There is no real debate about the Falle Basic Pick Set. It is endorsed by Barry Wels from TOOOL, Marc Wber Tobias of LSS fame, Mark Bates from MBAUsa.com, Martin Newton and Bennie Wells from Safe Ventures and John Falle is a living legend. Where exactly is the debate and what are the anti-Falle opinions on this forum worth? The endorsers that I list have about 100 years of collective experience and have made monumental contributions to locksmithing, lockpicking and/or locksports.

The "debate" is originating from people that don't own the set, are professionally envious or don't appreciate the difference between good, better and best.

The argument that X can pick lock Y with a half-diamond and an L-type tension wrench is a non-argument. It is is entirely irrelevant and establishes nothing. You can drive a nail into a plank with a rock, the back of an axe head or a large wrench. So what? The point is that a hammer enables you to drive nails more efficiently than either of these items, i.e. it is a better tool.

The weight of expert opinion (and no we don't have anyone of the calibre of Mark Bates, Bennie Wells, Barry Wels or Marc Tobias on this forum) and the credentials of John Falle himself favour the John Falle Basic Pick Set as the pick set. There is no real debate on this topic, there is posturing, pretence and thinly veiled professional envy but no real debate. There's nothing to debate.

Ranting Digression Begins.

In fairness to Peterson I should mention that their tools are excellent: the workmanship, materials and designs are all high quality. There is no contest in pick tools. Falle-Safe and Peterson lead the way -- by miles. It's an insult to the craftsmanship of Falle and Peterson to even mention HPC, South Ord, Rytan, Dino and Majestic in the same breath. I have three HPC sets and I really don't understand the fuss, hype or price. They are banal designs, mediocre workmanship and ordinary materials. I've often wondered if HPC stands for High-Priced Crap or Horridly Produced Crap? Rather than improve their designs, materials or workmanship HPC just release old wine in new bottles. They've got the same crappy picks in bright colours, in camoulflage cases, in USA flag cases, "ID Badges" (with Locksmith ID???), jack knives, "Executive Sets", pens, back scratchers, toilet brushes (I made up the last two but you get my point). HPC is all gimmick yet we don't reap peep about HPCs line of junk/gimmick products (that don't even fit in restrictive key ways) on this forum. Why is that?

Ranting Digression Ends.

[dosman]

I've got a set of the knock-off Falle hook picks and I don't care for them so far. It could be just me but the rounded tips always slip off the pins. The sharp right angle of the end also presents a problem, I just can't get them into a lock until I've already got the front pins set. The long narrow neck is also weaker than a regular pick so locks with tougher springs make the pick flex more which makes them feel flimsy sometimes. At some point when I have more free time I plan to file some flat edges into the tips and also put a sharper angle on the front side of the fingers. Until then a couple regular finger picks are way more useful.

I may be suckered into getting the swooped style knock-offs though before writing them all off for good.

[dmux]

yea I mix and match my falle picks with other sets, I don't like the L-tension wrenches in the falle set, they are too short and always slip, most of the picks are rough around the edges and are just punched out like all the other picksets out there and they are very thin and not very comfortable to hold on to

[Shrub]

You are of course entitled to your opinions and welcome to state them on this forum but maybe tone down the way in which you express them, you have absolutley no idea who is on this site in what capacity, you have no idea wheather Mark or John are infact members of this site at all or under what name,

You also inferr that the people you mention are the only people who are entitled to an opinion and their opinions are the only ones that you or anyone else would or should listen listen to, thats fair enough but make sure you have a structure of evidence to back up your claims, i am not saying they arent great at picking locks nor am i saying they are, ive met and talked to John, Mark, Barry and also the SV gang, they are great people and are good at picking locks but i also know people on this site who are just as good as they are and dare i say it in certain areas maybe better,

I am a working lockie and i make tools, i have a Falle pickset and quite frankly although nice and shiney i do not use it and think that although many do like them they are over priced for the quality and usefulness as against a normal cheaper set,

You seem to believe that a good tool makes a good picker, your wrong but if i have that assumption wrong i appolagise,

The Falle pickset comes with sharp edges and burrs on them from where they have been cut out, they may be useful in some situations but no more useful than a set of SO picks for example and that is of course my opinion,

You like to name drop and seem to speak for the people you mention but have you met them? i was at the dutch open with Barry and Mark a few weeks ago, looking around the various pickers regarded as some of the best in the world i noticed that although many did have the Falle set with them including myself they were , i suppose, merely to show them off, looking around i didnt see one person useing them to pick locks, i admit i cant be everywhere all the time but some of the people you mention were there and either didnt pick any locks anyway or the ones that did simply did not use them and favoured other tools to open the locks, some however that did have the falle set also had the copied sets and favoured them to the falles, you get to like certain picks and tend to stick with what works well in your hands,

Some of the statements and summising you have made obviously isnt from first hand experiance and i suggest you tone down how you express your thoughts, we like to keep this site friendly and work hard to do so, we tell it how it is and give advice to the best of our experiance,

I repeat you have absolutley no idea who is behind a user name on a site like this and to make broad statements that infer the membership here is nothing more than an uneducated unskillful group that are 'jealous' of not owning such tools is very short sighted,

There are pickers on here that are far superiour than you (i summise) or i and the people you mention as being the gods of picking (in your eyes), i am not by any stretch suggesting that the people you mention are not good pickers or dont have good knowledge or inventive minds nor am i saying they make poor tooling, i have a lot of Johns stuff and it is excellent but that comes at a top dollar price of which the sport/hobby pickers simply can not afford in most cases and many tools are not even suitable for hobby pickers,

The falle hand picks are well thought out, the design of the wrenches are also good but in my opinion and a few others they simply are not the be all and end all, you mention someone picking to save their life for example, im sure that in that situation they wouldnt be bringing out a set of picks from their back pocket,

They are a bit of a gimmick in that they are given rave reviews by people like yourself but in reality any lock that they can be picked open could be opened with a normal cheap set of picks as well if the skill level is there, John himself, if given a 14 piece set of SO picks and a set of his own, would be able to open a lock with both sets equally effectively,

You mention the people who sell the items but of course they are going to say they are the best and push them as so and if you live on every breath they make you will also believe what is told to you, what we do here is make educated posts from first hand experiance, many people on here do have the Falle set and are quite entitled to say if they think they are worth the money or not compared to other tools,

If you like shiney things and want a differant looking set of picks then go for them but dont expect them to simply make locks fall open, the skill required to open a lock with say a set of HPC picks is still the same and used whether useing a set of Falle picks or a cheap set of normal ones, theres no differance in the result, the lock opens,

Were not negative about any one particular person or company who produces picks exclusively, we all regard John as being a very clever man who has a lot of clever tools that are well thought out and well made anyone who spends time talking to him about tool design comes away impressed by his thoughts but if a particular product doesnt live up to expectations then it will be made known by those who feel they havent met the value they thought they would get,

As i say i have a lot of Johns tools from the hand picks to the P+C's to the Abus tool through to the Tibbe tool and i can honestly say that on quite a few of them i have had to finish off where the factory has left off, for example the P+C's need the holes deburring before the pins fit properly, the hand picks need the pips removeing from the handles and others need slight modifacations in other areas to allow them to work as expected, on somthing that costs so much you wouldnt expect to have to re drill the holes on somthing or spend time fileing down bad bits or indeed making new bits to make the use of them more user friendly,

I love the Falle stuff and the stuff SV produce themselves is also some great stuff but just like the cheaper lock opening items out there you sometimes need to spend time finishing them off which personally i think is unacceptable on what is touted and proved to be some of the best stuff on the market in most cases,

Im no way anti Falle in fact i am the total opposite and will reccomend what i believe to be some of the best stuff out there but is that because a lot of the stuff is the only stuff out there? i suggest so, the manual pickset however is available in other configirations ie other hand picks are available, does this suggest that they are still the best out there? NO it doesnt, a Chubb 110 P+C for example cant, as far as i know, be bought commercially from another manufacturer so therefore they are the best on the market but a hand pickset can so theres somthign to compare it to, all of a sudden the pickset looks expensive and questions are asked if the extra expense makes them so much better than the cheaper sets around, some of us suggest no they arent and like i say we are entitled to that opinion and have the independant voice to say what we believe, but we dont attack the people who say they are the be all and end all but merely say fair enough we dont agree because of such a reason whether its agreed to by the other person or not,

What we dont do is start saying that because you dont like a particular product means that you are rubbish at what you do and have no idea whats what, which is basically what you said,

Have i taken offence by your comments? yes i have, do i care? no i dont, i dont know you from adam and you dont know me along with anyone else on here but it doesnt mean that i or anyone else on this site are below you or anyone else because we spoke up and said that we dont actually think a certain product is actually worth the money if you dont have the money spare to simply try a product out for yourself, infact you make the exact same comments about other cheaper tools in your post so can i post up saying your crap at picking and do not have any clue on what tools are good or not because you suggested you dont like those?

This isnt a flame or a rant but rather a series of comments that suggest and explain that theres ways to do things, saying that we dont like somthign doesnt mean we have no clue, infact its the opposite, 99% of the regulars on here have very good opinions and experiances in many areas of lockpicking and what we dont do is come out with an attitude that simply stinks when we dont like somthign someone else has said, we discuss why and come to an agreed conclusion be it if we decide to disagree or agree with what was said,

I will finish this rather long and perhaps repetative post by saying play nice, dont call out everyone else on the site because you dont like somthing thats been said, discuss things nicely and put a polite and friendly opinion across, to act like the member base is beneath you or anyone else is simply not the way the forum works,

[Deathadder]

well, shrub, i think its official, you can add the "longest post" ribbon to your "most number of posts" belt .