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Lock IDs

European hardware -lever locks, profile cylinders specific for European locks. European lock picks and European locks.

Lock IDs

Postby jiggler » 13 Dec 2006 21:46

Hi,

Can anyone recommend a Lock ID product for me?

I have the CB drill points card which comes with some pictures of all the locks but there are no keyway close-ups.

I have all the current (BS3621:2004) locks to practise my picking but it is the older one's that've been on the door 10 years that I will need to be IDing as well. So, I need a book or a CD to study.

I've looked at the Mark Francis CD and that would be ideal but Aldridges are only selling it along with the drill templates wheras Duffells used to sell it alone. I might ring Mark and see if he could do the CD on it's own for me but if anyone can recommend a better one I'd like to know?

Please understand I'm not looking to be a driller killer. I have all the wires for the CB pick and am practising like mad but I'll need to know which wire to use where when I get to the door. If I do have to drill I want to be getting it right first time every time and drilling a 5mm hole to align the levers.

Thanks for your help :wink:
jiggler
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 15:56
Location: UK

Postby Shrub » 14 Dec 2006 10:33

Drill a 2 or 3mm holes and no bigger,

You drill to put a wire in the lever gates so that the lifting of the lever allows the wire to move into the gate, do this on all levers and the lock can be opened,

DOnt drill the stump and dont drill any more than the 3mm to line the levers up, sight isnt nessacary,

To the point of your question, there are amny on ebay but im unsure of the quality,

If your really stuck on the door on an old lock it shouldnt be much of a proble,m as the old locks tend to not meet the BS ratings thusly are easier to pick in most cases,

There are a few people making te drill points cards and to be honest if its one for a 2-3mm drill and the point is on the lever gates theres little point in having a picture of the lock with you anyway, a lock that you havent seen before can usually be id'd over the phone with a collegue or even the drill points worked out on the door with a ruler and pencil,

A torch and maybe a impression key could be helpful items, you know the size of the keyhole and where the botl is, a very good guess should im sure be able to be achieved on where to drill,

If your after the pics of the old locks you could be disopointed by the boks around right now as most of them are off the shelf locks i think from what i hear, most of mine are from taking pics of every lock i come across, i did have a id cd that was copied for me by an old aquaintance but to be honest the photography was below par and some of the pictures sqashed up and this idiot was selling them for £180 lol (in fact i think he still does) they dont have the old locks in and minimal use on the door,

The best way i learnt id was to simply start making my own chart up, as with a lot of others, you get halfway throguh your chart having done your research and end up just knowing the stuff before the paper work is finished,

My advice is to drill for the lever gates useing a 2-3mm template, forget the id cd's/books and make your own with the info you want, in the case of old locks buy them from other lockies or ebay, you need them for practice and maybe spare parts anyway so simply make an id card from them as well, keep goign until you have pretty much at least one of every lock made, I must have hundreds of lever locks by now and have either picked them all repeatedly or used them to make and develop tools on,

Its the best way to learn,
Shrub
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 11576
Joined: 23 May 2005 4:03
Location: uk

Postby jiggler » 14 Dec 2006 11:18

Thanks Shrub.

I have the CB drill points card which does mark the lever position but if I don't know which lock I'm looking at then I can't choose a drill point from the 14 options.

I think I'm going to go on the Locksmith Training UK Lock ID and Drilling course next week and then on the BS picking course with Martin Newton in January. I think that is the best way for me to go as I want to make it in this trade properly and there are some gaps in my knowledge such that I don't feel confident in going out and trading without ensuring that they are filled beforehand. The ID course will give me practical training and also the reference material I need. They've said they will run through a few other things with me as well, like opening a combination lock with a lost code which I could not do at the moment. I need to get into the advanced forums really but I'm not in long enough to apply.

I did a course earlier this year with a "training" provider from Whitley Bay who will remain nameless but gets slammed on here - and rightly so. We all get what's coming to us so he'll get what he deserves in the end.

I am ususally a very meticulous person but I got caught out on this one because of the City & Guilds tag attached to that course - it semmed to me a guarantee of quality but how wrong I was! So I have to spend some more money and get the knowledge I should have been given already. It's not fair but I'll not let it stop me from pursuing a career that I really want to make it at.

Thanks again for your help Shrub.
jiggler
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 15:56
Location: UK

Postby jiggler » 14 Dec 2006 11:48

I just re-read that post and it sounds a bit "oh woe is me" and that's not how I feel. I'll have to spend a bit more money to recover from a setback and then I'll work like mad to make it back - and much more besides.

The more things sent to try me - the harder I will try.

I've just made that my signature.

8)
jiggler
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 15:56
Location: UK

Postby Shrub » 14 Dec 2006 13:48

Dont worry i was conned as well when i first started,


Ive heard the ID course Martin runs is a good one and you will get a lot from it, its true that once the lock is id'd youve won half the battle,
Shrub
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 11576
Joined: 23 May 2005 4:03
Location: uk

Postby jiggler » 14 Dec 2006 14:36

Yes, it's a real shame because being duped could completely put someone off who could become a genuinely good locksmith and that's very sad.

Not to mention the fact that they're turning people out who are unable to do the job to an acceptable standard and that's bad for everyone in this trade.

I'm clear about the steps I need to take to get me on track so I'm ok.

The Lock ID course does look like a good one and it's just what I need. I'll get the tuition and the ID reference material I need to keep studying and it's also one of the places people on here approve of so that's a gold star. They'll run through one or two other things for me as well so I'm very happy.

I'm going the long way around but I'll get there in the end and I'll be one of the good ones.
The more things sent to try me, the harder I will try. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
jiggler
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 15:56
Location: UK

Postby stewroper » 14 Dec 2006 19:02

:D Do u drill the stump bolt if it is a right handed lock as you only need to drill past the bolt tail and you have taken away the fixing point between the tail and levers. :? :?:
stewroper
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 12:15
Location: Tipton / ENGLAND

Postby lockey1963 » 14 Dec 2006 19:18

surely better to just pick the lock
lockey1963
 
Posts: 346
Joined: 25 Oct 2006 7:38
Location: nottingham

Postby haribo » 18 Dec 2006 3:26

The only way to gain the experience with lock id is out doing the job. Its different to id a lock when on the door, especially if its rusty or in poor light etc. What you will find is that your area will tend to have a certain make that is prominent due to the fact it is sold locallly in B&Q etc. ERA is very popular in my area because it is sold in the big strore in town. An easy ID and open. Its not fool proof but take a trip to your local superstore and any other popluar diy stores and have a look what locks are on sale.
Drills for Show... Picks for a Pro
haribo
 
Posts: 101
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 14:09
Location: Kent

Postby jiggler » 19 Dec 2006 1:21

Yes, it's all in the experience. I'll go on this training day and then keep looking at all the locks I come accross.
The more things sent to try me, the harder I will try. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
jiggler
 
Posts: 83
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 15:56
Location: UK


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