Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Locksmithing industry changing- how should I plan?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Locksmithing industry changing- how should I plan?

Postby 77luke » 15 Dec 2006 5:22

So I have just recently got a job with a locksmith. I love what I am doing, but I am afraid that 10 years down the road I will be underdeveloped technology wise. With that in mind, what would you guys recommend as the best things to start learning now for the years ahead....low voltage, RFID, computer programming...etc??? Thanks.
If you always do what you have always done- you will always get what you have always gotten!
77luke
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 29 May 2004 23:52
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby kodierer » 15 Dec 2006 5:51

Its wise to learn everything you can about any type of security when your in that field, and otherwise too actually. As far as what your going to have to learn goes, I am suggesting you learn about how secure each type of high tech entry method is against another, and to learn how each one works.
I do not think physical locks will ever completely disappear, but I do think a lot of technology will be incorporated, and with it locksmithing software, and instruction manuals for locksmiths, so that they may work with new technologies as they come out. I doubt you will ever have to learn a computer programming language for necessity of being a locksmith. However learning is beneficial to everyone for a number of reasons, but we can save that for another thread.
Image
kodierer
 
Posts: 819
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 12:45
Location: Utah

further education

Postby gostone » 15 Dec 2006 12:11

I would suggest you might want to learn something about Electronics. More companies are combining card access systems with traditional locks. While I don't believe that locks are going anywhere soon. You will need to understand security, and alarm systems to be able to keep up. Perhaps an electro-mechanical technician course of some type.
gostone
 
Posts: 153
Joined: 8 Nov 2006 23:59
Location: Toronto

Postby Grudge » 15 Dec 2006 13:48

My advice is to concentrate on being able to provide an overall security solution (of which locks are just a part) and creating a maintenance & review contracts with your customers.

For example (true story), locksmith shows up to replace a shot Medeco IC core in an interior door. Nice lock but I know it is an older Medeco that could be bumped (although unlikely because of the restricted key availability) and I know that door can be carded open because the deadlatch plunger falls into the hole in the strike and finally that there is a big gap at the bottom of the door and it easy to open that way too. Lockie replaces the core and leaves.
No help, no advice and LOTS of missed opportunity to sell me upgraded security (and that is just on the door, what about alarms, CCTV, etc?).

What if we had a reasonably priced contract with the 'Security Specialist' (aka locksmith and perhaps other specialists as part of a team) instead. Every year (or 6 months) he/she would come out and adjust our doors to make sure they latch properly, check over our CCTV system and evaluate our general security picture. They might mention that in the last few months a new problem called 'bumping' has come out and our locks are vulnerable but since the keys are patent protected for another few year the risk is low. They might also mention that in our area the police are reporting lower break-ins but more frequent auto thefts and so maybe we should beef up the lighting in the parking lot. Now THAT is what I need (and would be willing to pay for, if I couldn't do it myself) as a business person from my locksmith.
Image
Grudge
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 10 Dec 2003 13:24
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby jordyh » 15 Dec 2006 13:52

You speak like a marketeer who has entrepeneurial skills, Grudge.
I like your ideas.
jordyh
 
Posts: 877
Joined: 15 Dec 2005 8:01

Postby greyman » 15 Dec 2006 18:27

I would also suggest doing an electronics course. One that covers basic circuit theory relevant to locksmiths, like mains voltage wiring (electrician stuff) and low voltage circuits so you can install electric strikes and eletromagnetic locks. Some digital/microprocessors too if you're game - very relevant for transponders and RF wireless links for locks. (I'm an electrical engineer not a lockie, BTW).
Image
greyman
 
Posts: 1026
Joined: 21 Mar 2005 16:43
Location: NSW, Australia

Postby Father Time » 15 Dec 2006 20:03

This is a good book to get you started:

http://www.hpcworld.com/Books/b_lc8.htm


.
I am NOT an evil genius :)
Father Time
 
Posts: 165
Joined: 1 Dec 2006 2:51
Location: Pacific Northwest

Postby kodierer » 15 Dec 2006 20:10

mark tobias Locks, safes, and security, and bill phillips locksmithing are also good books to give you a start at learning different electronic locking mechanisms
Image
kodierer
 
Posts: 819
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 12:45
Location: Utah

Postby Father Time » 15 Dec 2006 20:48

Something else that you might want to try is getting one of those 200 in 1 electronic project kits like RadioShack sells.

You'll learn a little about basic electronics and have fun doing so. Lots of cool things to play with too.



.
I am NOT an evil genius :)
Father Time
 
Posts: 165
Joined: 1 Dec 2006 2:51
Location: Pacific Northwest

Postby nezumi » 15 Dec 2006 21:49

Definitely RFID. Now that the government is officially centering on a few unified systems, we're going to see that technology become much more prevalent. I suspect most places like this will use both locks AND RFID, so you won't be going out of the job, but it'll be better if you know both.
nezumi
 
Posts: 174
Joined: 18 Feb 2006 21:35
Location: Washington, D.C., USA

Postby Father Time » 15 Dec 2006 22:08

RFID has been hacked sometime ago. It can now be used to transmit viruses, etc.

Until the security issues are resolved (not possible in my opinion), this technology is on shakey ground. It will always be a plaything of deconstructors.

The current enthusiasm about it is mainly by people who wish to peddle it.

Much like "unpickable" locks. Hahahahahahaha.


.
I am NOT an evil genius :)
Father Time
 
Posts: 165
Joined: 1 Dec 2006 2:51
Location: Pacific Northwest

Postby kodierer » 16 Dec 2006 5:57

I'm personally under the impression that infared is the best security. On the more high tech level. Anyone got an opinion?

However bypass methods certainly can be devised for anything, and they are often very simple.
Take for example my pace of work. They use RFID cards to get in the door. The lever handle stays locked, but you can push the door open for a few seconds. Also you can open the door from the inside without worrying about the card.

I already know how this door can be easily bypassed, and I'm sure many of you do also. There is no need to be able to hack the technology end if you can manipulate is physical devices.
Image
kodierer
 
Posts: 819
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 12:45
Location: Utah

Postby 77luke » 16 Dec 2006 6:19

kodierer wrote:Take for example my pace of work. They use RFID cards to get in the door. The lever handle stays locked, but you can push the door open for a few seconds. Also you can open the door from the inside without worrying about the card.

I already know how this door can be easily bypassed, and I'm sure many of you do also. There is no need to be able to hack the technology end if you can manipulate is physical devices.


Thanks for the input guys....keep it coming. I was interested a lot in electronics when I was younger- but then the math scared me away.

About these doors using the RFID cards.....sorry if this is not allowed- but how (besides slipping something under the door and pulling the inside lever down) could you get around it?
If you always do what you have always done- you will always get what you have always gotten!
77luke
 
Posts: 66
Joined: 29 May 2004 23:52
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby Grudge » 16 Dec 2006 6:19

kodierer wrote:I'm personally under the impression that infared is the best security. On the more high tech level. Anyone got an opinion?

If you mean transmitting an unlock code via infrared, then I have to disagree. You can 'sniff' infrared very easily and the protocols used are often generic, 'TV remote' style protocols which are easy to figure out. The Palm PDA is a good starter unit for programmable IR hacking and it has been used to brute force a IR padlock.
Image
Grudge
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 10 Dec 2003 13:24
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby Grudge » 16 Dec 2006 6:33

77luke wrote:About these doors using the RFID cards.....sorry if this is not allowed- but how (besides slipping something under the door and pulling the inside lever down) could you get around it?

Most RFID cards simply send back a radio signal that consists of a fixed series of pulses that represent that card's ID. All you have to do is 'listen' nearby when this happens to pick up the card's ID and then play it back to the reader to pretend you have the card. Also nothing prevents you from building a card reader device that can activate & read any card you get close to (just ride a crowded elevator and scam some card number). If fact, you don't even have to be very close if you have a large enough antenna to pick up the signals.

So, in effect, most RFID cards are simply passwords written down in invisible ink (radio waves). That old 'security by obscurity' raises it's head once again.
Image
Grudge
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 577
Joined: 10 Dec 2003 13:24
Location: Dallas, TX

Next

Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests