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IC A2 combination question

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

IC A2 combination question

Postby WOT » 17 Dec 2006 5:52

Let's configure a chamber under A2 system to be:
Ctrl =7
Change =3

Using pinning calculator, the resulting stack looks like this (top to bottom)
6,14,3B, however I've seen such key bitting combinated like this in real life (these bittings are made up, but you get the idea):

6,2,12,3B

Since there's no such thing as a #15 cut, "3" is still the only functioning shear line and control cut is still "7", so using 2A&12A in place of a 14A serves no functional purpose as far as I can tell.

What's the compelling reason to use more pins in a chamber than necessary to make the lock functional with all the key cuts specified besides being out of a 14A pin at the time of combinating?
WOT
 
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Re: IC A2 combination question

Postby keysman » 17 Dec 2006 9:33

WOT wrote:Let's configure a chamber under A2 system to be:
Ctrl =7
Change =3

Using pinning calculator, the resulting stack looks like this (top to bottom)
6,14,3B, however I've seen such key bitting combinated like this in real life (these bittings are made up, but you get the idea):

6,2,12,3B

Since there's no such thing as a #15 cut, "3" is still the only functioning shear line and control cut is still "7", so using 2A&12A in place of a 14A serves no functional purpose as far as I can tell.

What's the compelling reason to use more pins in a chamber than necessary to make the lock functional with all the key cuts specified besides being out of a 14A pin at the time of combinating?




Master key bitting
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Re: IC A2 combination question

Postby WOT » 17 Dec 2006 14:23

keysman wrote:
WOT wrote:Let's configure a chamber under A2 system to be:
Ctrl =7
Change =3

Using pinning calculator, the resulting stack looks like this (top to bottom)
6,14,3B, however I've seen such key bitting combinated like this in real life (these bittings are made up, but you get the idea):

6,2,12,3B

Since there's no such thing as a #15 cut, "3" is still the only functioning shear line and control cut is still "7", so using 2A&12A in place of a 14A serves no functional purpose as far as I can tell.

What's the compelling reason to use more pins in a chamber than necessary to make the lock functional with all the key cuts specified besides being out of a 14A pin at the time of combinating?




Master key bitting


In that particular bitting, I don't see a usable operating cut except 3. If 3 is one operating cut, what is the other one in this particular chamber? As far as I know, there isn't another one.

If the bitting was 6,12,2,3B instead of 6,14,3B, you'd have two operating cuts, but 6,2,12,3B only gives you 3 for operating cut.
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Location: (SFIC) USA

Postby rakemaster » 17 Dec 2006 16:03

I've never actually pinned an IC lock, but I've read the schlage guide.
Wouldnt that example allow two working control cuts, 7 and 5?
Seems kinda strange to master the control and not the operating, but thats what you've got I think.
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Postby grit1 » 17 Dec 2006 16:28

Matt Blaze's notes on SFIC cites the possibility of mastering the control shear line...I've never seen myself this but it is very possible.
Image
Got shear line?
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Postby 2octops » 17 Dec 2006 19:08

rakemaster wrote:I've never actually pinned an IC lock, but I've read the schlage guide.
Wouldnt that example allow two working control cuts, 7 and 5?
Seems kinda strange to master the control and not the operating, but thats what you've got I think.


Your spot on.

Have no clue why anyone would do it unless they are out of 14 pins.
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Postby WOT » 18 Dec 2006 8:44

Also,
does anyone know where I can get Best blanks cut by codes, so I can test out variation of keys that I think will work for cores I've combinated based on my math?
WOT
 
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Location: (SFIC) USA

cutting best blanks

Postby grim » 18 Dec 2006 21:44

WOT wrote:Also,
does anyone know where I can get Best blanks cut by codes, so I can test out variation of keys that I think will work for cores I've combinated based on my math?


what keyway? i have a number of different types at the shop. if they aren't considered "restricted" or "semi-restricted", then i could churn some out for you.
grim

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Re: cutting best blanks

Postby WOT » 18 Dec 2006 23:33

grim wrote:
WOT wrote:Also,
does anyone know where I can get Best blanks cut by codes, so I can test out variation of keys that I think will work for cores I've combinated based on my math?


what keyway? i have a number of different types at the shop. if they aren't considered "restricted" or "semi-restricted", then i could churn some out for you.


The classic single letter A-M series. What do you consider "semi-restricted" ?
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Postby 2octops » 19 Dec 2006 0:57

Send me a list of what you are wanting. Just remember, SFIC bittings are read from tip to bow, no bow to tip.
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