i was just wondering

[sosuke]

i'm new to sportpicking (been at it about three months now) , and i'm starting to frustrate myself. is it normal to plateau after a while and have a hard time with some locks? some locks i can manage to pick over and over consistently: 2 kwikset deabolts, 2 master #3, a brinks deadbolt with two spool pins, a six-pin sargent deadbolt with no security pins, and any number of no-name locks. some, however, i can't get open no matter how hard i seem to try. i have 3 other six-pin sargent dead bolts with no security pins that won't open up, a brinks r-70, a brinks shrouded, four schlage interchangable cores, and a couple of medeco keymarks. i was just wondering if these locks take a better touch. i thought i could visualize the inside of locks pretty well,...but now i'm not so sure. i even tried re-pinning the sargents so they would be easier. i can open them no problem with two and three pins in them, but five and six pins are a different story all together. any insight is appreciated.

[Anero]

well i know the r70 takes some getting used to, tension is key with that lock it has a very strong spring, once you get used to that picking it with light and heavy tension is easy.

the brinks shroud, if it's the one i think it is, i bought it, looked at it and tried to pick it for about 4 hours, then put it down, i havn't picked it back up yet, still playing with my shlage that a repin every few days,

the sargent's i'm not sure about as i have not tried to pick them yet, but it sounds like tension, and setting the extra pins.

[UWSDWF]

My suggestion would be relax.... try to make it a more 'zen' like expierence. Watch tv or a movie whilst picking or listen to music ect....

pick or pick not there is no try

[jiggler]

have you got the keys for these locks?

The 6 pin locks with no security pins should open fine as long as you aren't moving the nearer pins when you're setting the back ones. You can pick one already so work on them first I'd say. Try holding the lock in a small vice and see if that helps?

[Deathadder]

Ha! Good luck with the brinks shrouded, took me d*** near three days to get that one open. The schlages are less hard, but that doesn't mean they dont take a while to get open. The approach I took for the shrouded is to find the pin that binds the most, because some bind slightly, and pick that until it stops. it will be a false set, but try and find the next pin to set. If none others bind, click the one you set earlier up one more time, applying very light tension. if you come to a point where you can't tell which ones are set and which ones are false set, try some trial and error. pick one of the pins you think may be false set and lift it, if you hear a clean click, chances are you set it, if it was kind of a grinding click, you probably overset it and the grinding was the serrated bottom pins. Do this until you find out which ones are false set and the lock will open. It takes a long time to pick (me a good 10 minutes) but it is a good feeling when you do it. Also it is not a good idea to "reverse" pick these pins, because the serrated bottom pins. Also if you have the key(i lost mine ) you can use the cuts to tell you about how high or low the pins should be ( say cut 2 is slightly higher than cut 3, you would be able to see if the same was happening with the pins in your lock.) this lock takes a very good feel to know what is going on inside the lock, if you don't have that feel yet, I suggest working on some easier ones until you know for certain whats going on. Hope this helped , just some advice from someone who knows your pain.

[Romstar]

i'm new to sportpicking (been at it about three months now) , and i'm starting to frustrate myself. is it normal to plateau after a while and have a hard time with some locks?

Yep, this too is normal.

I would imagine that your visualization skills are actually pretty good. What's got you is tension, and I don't mean just the lock.

You are expecting something, and when it doesn't come the frustration begins, and this makes it harder.

I know it may sound weird, but you should approach each lock as something new. Even if it is an identical make and model you have picked before.

You have an excellent opportunity here to un-learn some bad habits you may have picked up along the way. Namely, your tension technique.

Many people don't really learn to control the tension until much later after they have struggled with it for a bit. It is true that in some rare occasions, you may need heavy tension, but for the most part, you want barely anything. The weight of a finger or about 1 oz.

This may cause pins to come unset, but it will also teach you to really know the difference between a binding and non binding stack. When you use too much tension, it is easy to create a "false" binding condition, and you start off with the wrong stack.

It really is all about feel. Your fingers will learn the difference, and then you will know where the pins are as you lift them.

Good luck,
Romstar

[sosuke]

thank you to everyone for the insights. romstar, i do find myself kind of upping the tension when it seems like nothing is happening. i've worked myself into such a frenzy that i bounce the tension wrentch like a madman,...looking for any kind of a bind. that's when i know i'm trying too hard and i go kick back a couple pints of guinness then come back and try later.

[nezumi]

Firstly, I would definitely make sure you know the lock works in the first place. I have a used lock I got that I couldn't pick for, literally, weeks (I'd spend half an hour to an hour a day picking locks over lunch, and I'd alternate locks, so I had spent several hours on this one). One day one of the pins seemed to suddenly come lose and the lock swung open. Since then, the lock can be picked in about ten minutes. Since it also has a broken spring, I can't pick it upside down, I have to use gravity to keep that bottom pin from sliding up. Definitely a challenge! If your lock doesn't work, simply accept that it might not be a question of skill, but of equipment, and test it if you can.

Secondly, you must do everything you can to avoid getting frustrated. Avoid approaching this from the point of view of 'this is a challenge that must overcome' and accept that it is something you are studying. Throw away everything you know, or think you know, and simply 'have fun'. What sounds do you get when you use heavy tension? What happens when you use light tension? Does this pin stick at this height? Does it stick higher? At that point you don't care if the lock comes open, you're just learning how the physics work. Ironically, by virtue of that, you are more likely to get it open (because you're not stressed, you're paying more attention to what's happening, and you're more open to learning new tricks).

If anything, like Romstar said, this is a good thing. It does not help you that the method you learned to pick a kwikset works on all these other similar locks. What you need is to learn how to pick up a random lock you're not familiar with and adjust your methodology as you go, as well as changing your 'permanent' methods to apply to the most locks you can. The best thing that happened for my picking technique is my medeco (which I still can't get, of course). After spending a month on that, I could more easily tell which pin I was on, how much resistance it was giving and how high it was. It was the challenge, not the success, that made me a better lock picker.

[raimundo]

You have arrived at a new point in picking, you will find that commercial picks are limited in the number of locks that they can address because they are made large, thick shafts to keep the heavy handed happy, and large pick tips that are sometimes in the way of getting the job done. What you have to do now is start making your own picks, with tips in the middle area of the pin depths, and well sanded and rounded picktips and shafts. you will have better experience with the harder locks when you start making picks that fit the locks, and you should also think up new designs that you will make and try out. do not let your picking be dependent on commercial tools. Be creative, make your own tools, your own designs.

[sosuke]

i never even considered the tools i was using,..but that's a good idea to make my own. i'll have to look into it.

[lockdr]

Another thing...If you are picking and your tensioner moves 6 or 8 degrees and you can't get any further, you have run into a mushroom pin. Most locks that have them will have only one or two of these tricky little buggers.When it locks up on you, use your hook pick to feel which pin(s) are bound up. Those will be your mushroom pins. Turn back to locked position, pick the mushroom pins first. Once they are past the shear line, it will pick normally.
"The Voice of Experience"
Happy Picking

[Bob M]

All great advice, I'll add my $.01 worth, as I'm new to this also, change the pick you are using I find some cylinders do not like (in my hands) a diamond, snake, and really like a light hook.

As nezumi stated, does the lock work?
I remember 1 that wouldn't open, but I was able to shim it to get it apart, jammed springs, and a missing top pin,it had been repinned,badly. This was a class lock, and someone had not fixed it, assuming they knew it was messed up.

After 10 min. or so, stop and shake your hands for a few seconds, to relax and get the blood flowing .

Last, after a few minutes when I seem to stall, I'll release the torque slowly, and count the clicks, to see how close I may be getting.

Hope some of this helps.

[mrdan]

My turn! The thing that really made a difference on a number of locks it I put a very small (about 1/8") 90 degree bend on the other end of my tention tool and I use it on the top of the keyway. This changes the way the cylinder turns and where the tention is applied. Try it out and you will find that it helps on some locks (like the brinks shrouded)