ERA Problem

[parapilot]

Just got a brand new ERA out of the packet, picked it easily but as soon as i picked it the lock jammed up. This of course warrants pulling the lock apart to investigate. Once i pulled the plug out i noticed both key and driver in the rear stack.



What had happened is the shortest key pin is small enough to allow the driver to also enter the plug below the shear line, causing a lip that the spring caught on causing the damage seen and jamming the plug.

This picture is with both key and drivers in the plug - no key.



This wouldn't happen if the key is used, but it essentially makes the lock a 4 pin cylinder effecting the security. What it you had 2 or 3 high cuts in the biting???? 2 - 3 pin lock? Not a very good design. Is this common in other brands?

J

[mrdan]

I haven't seen that befor now. The cause being that the cut is so shallow that both top and bottom fall below the shearline so if the other pins are picked then the spring binds and gets pulled out like that. That's cool!

[mrdan]

I would have thought that if they had this happen, they would use longer top pins.

[gostone]

I had the same issue with a 5 pin schlage cylinder I have, it is now a 4 pin cylinder!
It seems to happen on some locks when you turn it by the 180 degree mark. Normally with a key this would never happen, nor would you turn it more than 180 degrees.

[TOWCH]

Could make for an interesting method of determining if a lock has been picked.

[Moto42]

Ooooh, cool idea TOWCH. Use a non-conductive material for that pin, insulate the hole it's in and run a mild charge through the spring. Then just have an your alarm system moniter the charge. If the spring is broken, the system notices and the alarm goes off.

[Moto42]

Where is the edit button!

I wish I wasn't such a noob, and knew a bit more about dismantling/reassembling locks, else I would whip up a proof of concept.

[ponsaloti]

was it possible to turn the plug enough to open a door, reason i ask is i cant see any damage on the plug

[JackNco]

ive destroyed about 5 springs this was (ok 4 once i forgot 2 stick a pin in the last hole and destroyed a spring)

its a pain! and yes ponsaloti it is possible to turn the plug far enough top open the lock. it takes some doing but u can do it with a tension wrench

John

[parapilot]

was it possible to turn the plug enough to open a door, reason i ask is i cant see any damage on the plug

The lock was not installed, but yes i could turn the plug with force (I was playing and not bothered about messing up the lock)

I would expect the spring to jam at 180 Deg as it will fall into the keyway, but this lock started jamming right away getting caught on the lip of the rear pin stack.

[jordyh]

I can only assume that it's a matter of pinning.

I once did that to a Winkhaus lock myself at pin nr 2 and 4, it was a 5 pin lock.
The goal was to make a lock with an extremely high-low-high-low-high pinning, way beyond MACS.
It worked, of course.
And I can pick it with a Southord long hook with some effort.

I can only assume that I have pins that are JUST long enough.
(And that you have a pin that lacks a millimeter...)
Perhaps you just had a very weird pinning, we know that it occurs now and then.
Question is:
If you put the smallest driver pin in, and the smallest key pin, what's stopping the spring from getting mashed up by the plug?
Nice issue to think about.


Yours,
Jordy

[ponsaloti]

understood

[Bump]

Good demonstration of the potentially destructive effect of picking and why you shouldn't mess with locks that you don't own or rely on.