Corbin - The Impossible European Profile Cylinder To Pick?

[jdport]

Security pins are always a lot of fun :p but these ISEOs are almost too much fun. All of them, except for the counterfeit ISEOs we also have here in Kuwait, contain 4 spool pins. Besides security pins, you might also have a difficult pin arrangement. A simple Kwikset with a code of 14141 can be challenging. Just keep practicing.

[Tozzy]

Cheers for your advice jiggler. Ok, that's the next step I'm going to take. I will have a look at the exercises in Digital blues guide. I am dying to have a look at those pins inside the lock .

Does this look like the keyway you are working with?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/ ... corbin.jpg

Yea, looks very similar. In fact, here's a picture of the corbin lock (in it's locked state) and key I'm working with:

Sorry to hijak your thread Tozzy but I think you got the info you needed above. Good luck with it mate

Hey no problem . Feel free to add your own experiences to the thread .

Besides security pins, you might also have a difficult pin arrangement.

Well to be honest, I was thinking that perhaps it is a difficult arrangement due to the fact that the 3rd pin sets exceptionally higher than the rest of the pins. And notice how low down the 4th pin has to be for it to set? Quite a tough cookie . In fact, so tough that it snapped my snake rake. £4.00 down the drain .

Well, when I get chance, I'm going to disassemble it and then I might post pictures here.

[NKT]

I ended up drilling one of these Corbins fairly recently (a month or so ago) as it was a tough nut to crack on the door. It was for a friend, which made it even worse!

I finally beat it after about 40 minutes in my hand, after trying on the door for ages.

As regards the number of security pins in various locks, the ERA 6 pin CEN Grade 4 euro has three security pins, the Zone CEN4 6 pin has 5 and the sixth is a sort of shallow bobbin, and the GEGE 5 pin has 5 bobbins. Perhaps I'm rubbish (ok, I know I'm not) but beating the Zone took ages, over an hour with no result, then snapgun/EPG for a bit, then back to hand picking, beating it after 15 minutes or so. I've not beaten the ERA yet, and I've not opened the GEGE by hand.

Compare these to a Union restricted suite, which normally takes me under 3 minutes, or the average Yale rim cylinder which takes me under 60 seconds, by hand.

[Tozzy]

Just bought myself a set of 8 locks. Typical, the first one I pick to pick is a security pinned lock!

Is there anyone here that has the strategy required to pick security pinned cylinders or is only achieved by 'chance picking'?

It would be great if someone could go through step by step how they go about picking these locks because they just seem impossible to me.

I've tried everything, steady picking, fast picking, vigorous scrubbing, moderate tension, firm tension... 1 step forward, two steps back, 3 pins set and 2 pins back into their original position! Vicious circle!

I've not yet been able to disassemble corbin because I need very small plyers for the circular clips which I'm getting soon off a friend.

Sorry I know I'm being a pain, I'll try to hold back a bit now, I've already asked lots of questions and if I could give some advice back I would, but I'm not experienced enough yet.

Anyway, if one of you guys can give me a step by step of picking a typical security lock then that would be awesome.

Perhaps the reason why pins come back up is because of different pin diameters (big key pin pushes small driver off the shear line)?

[lockey1963]

try using a process of overlifting, with back of pick lift all pins as high as possible, then apply a firm tension, holding all pins up , then gently feather tension, it is possible to drop only the bottom pins thus opening the lock.
as with autos its not 100%, but can work well, often when a top pin drops, it will put lock into anti pick, then a matter of picking out the anti picks.

[jiggler]

You've got to feel it Tozzy.

When you get to a security pin you'll find you are able to push it down and then it wil stop without setting. You will need to release tension a little and force it to set by pressing harder on the pin stack. When you set the security pin the extra force you use will probably cause a previously set pin to come unset and you'll have to set it again. You just have to deal with this. It's hard to put into words. You will just have to feel the state of the pins and that's something you'll have to learn yourself - no one can tell you how to feel it. As lockey1963 says, the overlifting method does work. You will find the way that suits you best.

You really do need to complete these excercises and you will start to feel what's going on a lot better... viewtopic.php?t=10677

You will take all the pins out of the lock and pick with just one standard pin in. Then 2, then 3 etc.

Then you can pick with just one security pin in it, then 2, then 3, then a combination of security and standard pins etc. etc.

You can make a plug follower from a rolled up section of plastic bottle to change the driver pins. You will need some small pliers or tweezers to get the springs and driver pins back in when you are ready to add more pins back to the lock.

You will not be able to feel what's going on unless you have something to refer to. If you've picked a cylinder with one standard and one security pin 100 times then you will know what they feel like, when they are set and how to get them to set properly.

The excercise breaks the task into small pieces for you. It will take you less time to get better at picking by taking smaller steps to start with. Don't rush.

[RangerF150]

If it's a euro cylinder you could drill out the pins on one side and see what your up against!
It's something I do with em, you still have one side that can be picked and you get lot's of spare pins and springs
Very handy to add to repinning Varjeals lock.

[jiggler]

Better to open it with the key and take 'em out really. As it's a double Euro you'll have to chop it in half to re-pin it, unless you have a jig.

[What]

Better to open it with the key and take 'em out really. As it's a double Euro you'll have to chop it in half to re-pin it, unless you have a jig.

NOT TRUE!!!!!!
you do not need to cut it in half!

you can either:
- make a follower comprised of many pieces of dowling

or

- make a paperclip(i use wind shield wiper insert) pin holder shaped like:

Code: Select all

 ______________
|
|
|    _________
|___/         \


just thin the material used to fit in the bottom of the keyway(it is open bottom right?)
ill try and get pics of mine....

[Tozzy]

lockey1963, jiggler, RangerF150 & What, thank you very much for your replies. Jiggler, I really appreciate you returning to this thread to help me.

Well it's really funny actually because yesterday (sorry I couldn't reply yesterday (Xmas shopping)) I successfully picked a cylinder with security pins . Nope I'm not kidding either. Have the pictures to prove it which I will be adding to me list of picked locks later on in the month .

Seemed to me it was just by chance though. I spent about 20 mins doing what lockey1963 said which was to overlift the pins, apply firm tension, decrease the tension slightly. Did this about 10 times over. Then I got my feeler/ hook pick and pushed the very 1st pin (I'd given up by this time and was just farting about pushing and prodding) down repeatly and to my astonishment, the lock opened .

Another thing I did was to pick random pins until they were set, then when I tried to set another that was stubborn, I released tension slightly to allow me to set it. I just thought, ok so I've got some set and the others won't, I'm going to get them to set even if it means losing 1 or 2 pins in the process .

But, anyway, I think you guys have helped me a lot. Jiggler's given me a lot of top advice regarding the feel of the pins and how they work and how to disassemble. Although the thread became slightly confusing towards the end where there was a disagreement over chopping up the cylinder. It doesn't matter though because I'll be printing blue digital's guide off and perhaps even this thread to study. I'm disassembling the tough cookies and going from there because I've done as much as I could with the other easier locks.

Cheers all and have a merry Christmas!

[jiggler]

No worries. Good luck and happy Xmas.