Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Master Key Question

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Master Key Question

Postby Exodus5000 » 25 Apr 2004 19:38

During summer while i'm not in college, I work at a hotel/resort. While there my job requires that I have access to all rooms and closets, so i'm equipped with a master key to the building. I notice that a normal key that would open, for example, only the storage closet is just a normal schlage key, while the master key is a shlage key with extra groovings on the side of the key. I'm trying to envision in my head what these extra grooves could be used for that would make the difference between being a master and normal key? Perhaps there is an extra set of pins in the doors that need to be set?
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
Posts: 952
Joined: 6 Apr 2004 23:57
Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA

Postby Chucklz » 25 Apr 2004 19:51

What exactly do you mean by a normal schlage key? C keyway? There are many Schlage keyways, and from your description, it seems likely that there exists one of three situations

1.) Your hotel is keyed with a keway like the CE keyway which is a more complicated keyway than C

2.) Your hotel is sectionally masterkeyed. That is there exist several keyways, each with their own master key that will not enter the other keyways, and then one "master" section key that will enter all of the keyways.

3.) You have a combination of the Everest and Primus systems, in which the cheaper Everest locks are on "low" security areas, and the Primus on "high" security areas, and probably guest rooms. A primus key will operate an Everest cylinder.
Chucklz
 
Posts: 3097
Joined: 4 Nov 2003 17:58
Location: Philadelphia

Postby Varjeal » 25 Apr 2004 19:54

Not sure what you mean by grooves, but Schlage has several "sectional" keyways where a lower level key will fit into a certain type of cylinder while another will not.

umm..example: A schlage "c" sectional key will fit into a "c" keyway, but not an "E" or "F" while a Schlage "L" will fit into all of them. This is due to key "warding" or shape. The profile of an "L" sectional Schlage key is extremely thin, which allows it to fit into any of the locks.

I hope that makes sense. If possible, have a peek into a keyblank book and you'll understand what I mean.
*insert witty comment here*
Varjeal
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2869
Joined: 3 Oct 2003 15:05
Location: Western Canada

Postby Exodus5000 » 25 Apr 2004 20:00

I think the third option is what I am reffering too, especially after researching primus, everest, and schlage keys. This is the site I came up with:
http://www.centralsafeandlock.com/schlage/ev-prim.html

The primus key would be the master key I am reffering to with the extra milling on the side of they key. Just from looking at the diagram however I can't tell how the extra milling changes how they key behaves. Do locksmiths have the ability to make keys with side milling, or do you have to go to the key/lock distributor? Interesting stuff.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
Posts: 952
Joined: 6 Apr 2004 23:57
Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA

Postby Varjeal » 25 Apr 2004 20:06

k....now I understand...good questions Chucklz...anyways, locksmiths do not have the legal ability to cut the side milling on the key, just the standard blade. The blanks are purchased from the manufacturer and go straight to the locksmith to be duplicated or originally cut to the master system that the locksmith has set up.

The locksmith may "own" a particular side-milling (or two or three) but they cannot legally "make" their own side-milled keyblanks.
*insert witty comment here*
Varjeal
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2869
Joined: 3 Oct 2003 15:05
Location: Western Canada

Postby Exodus5000 » 25 Apr 2004 20:09

Makes sense, an extra check for security measures never hurts I guess. But for my original question, what does the extra milling on the side do?
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
Posts: 952
Joined: 6 Apr 2004 23:57
Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA

Postby Chucklz » 25 Apr 2004 20:23

The extra milling operates an extra set of 5 (4? I cant remember) pins that control a sidebar.
Chucklz
 
Posts: 3097
Joined: 4 Nov 2003 17:58
Location: Philadelphia

Postby randmguy » 25 Apr 2004 20:28

Primus locks have side pins to prevent picking the milling on the side of the key is to operate the side pins.
randmguy
 
Posts: 265
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 23:30
Location: MN, USA

Postby Varjeal » 25 Apr 2004 22:37

That would be an extra set of five pins in the side milling FYI. :)
*insert witty comment here*
Varjeal
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2869
Joined: 3 Oct 2003 15:05
Location: Western Canada

Postby Exodus5000 » 25 Apr 2004 23:09

That is what i expected. I've been looking for a picture of the sidebar pins but have not found anything interesting. Also, could someone provide a link, or even just tell me more information on this set up. Does the key need to set the six standard pins, plus the side bar pins? What makes them not able to be picked? Information! :)
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
Exodus5000
 
Posts: 952
Joined: 6 Apr 2004 23:57
Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, USA


Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests