This is the old Locksmith business info area and will be broken down to fill in the new sections below.
by Raccoon » 19 Dec 2006 20:29
Nice man. Care sharing what you made off that contract, what you put into it, etc?
I'd really love to get more master keying contracts. The one I did for a new elem. school grossed $4340, for 120 locks pinned, 225 keys cut, and a highly customized master system including hidden-TMK (firekey), and maint. sub masters and selective keys. This bought me my $1900 code cutter. The reason I charged so much was they needed it in 5 days, and I was working 15 hour shifts with 4 hour naps in between.
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by HeadHunterCEO » 19 Dec 2006 20:46
On a day like any other was sent to on an auto LO
I get there and this guy has a shovel jambed in between the door and door frame. His friend is pulling the door back and has a bent up hangar and he is trying to hit the unlock
His Wife had called us in an attempt to stop her husband from getting her car open but she was too late.
Doorologist
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by 2octops » 20 Dec 2006 3:05
Raccoon wrote:The one I did for a new elem. school grossed $4340, for 120 locks pinned, 225 keys cut, and a highly customized master system including hidden-TMK (firekey), and maint. sub masters and selective keys. This bought me my $1900 code cutter. The reason I charged so much was they needed it in 5 days, and I was working 15 hour shifts with 4 hour naps in between.
You work waaaaay to cheap.
Really.
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by ldnlksmth » 20 Dec 2006 8:57
drill out: I gave them a break becuase they were good customers and I would be supplying the new hardware and keying the system, so labour only ($50/hr) I think it took me a fully day and a half to find and drill all the locks. I used their drill bits so I didn't charge any parts.
set up master key system: $250
Supply new (OEM only) cyls: I rounded out to $20/ea for hardware, $10/ea for keying with keys.
The building is only a few blocks from my shop so I didn't bother with trip charges, I made HUGE dollars on it.
keys, we don't need no stinking keys!
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by New-York-Locksmith » 31 Dec 2006 7:43
2octops wrote:Raccoon wrote:The one I did for a new elem. school grossed $4340, for 120 locks pinned, 225 keys cut, and a highly customized master system including hidden-TMK (firekey), and maint. sub masters and selective keys. This bought me my $1900 code cutter. The reason I charged so much was they needed it in 5 days, and I was working 15 hour shifts with 4 hour naps in between.
You work waaaaay to cheap. Really.
well- what would you charge for it?
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by ldnlksmth » 1 Jan 2007 14:57
Set up master system: 250
Each lock pinned: 17
Each key cut (code) 8
Labour (35 hrs) 2450
before taxes: 6540
plus a trip charge for every day of work on site
plus cost of any required parts (there are always broken locks I can find to fix)
keys, we don't need no stinking keys!
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by unbreakable » 1 Jan 2007 15:07
Raccoon wrote:Nice man. Care sharing what you made off that contract, what you put into it, etc?
I'd really love to get more master keying contracts. The one I did for a new elem. school grossed $4340, for 120 locks pinned, 225 keys cut, and a highly customized master system including hidden-TMK (firekey), and maint. sub masters and selective keys. This bought me my $1900 code cutter. The reason I charged so much was they needed it in 5 days, and I was working 15 hour shifts with 4 hour naps in between.
Hidden tmk? Firekey?
I searched using google, but couldn't find any info......
Could you possibly elaborate a little?
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by ldnlksmth » 1 Jan 2007 21:13
hidden TMK (top master key): A master key that opens all doors in the master system, physically hidden somewhere on the premesis for emergency access.
Firekey: Usually TMK, placed in a secure box on the outside of the building (usually at the entrance containing the fire alarm system). The captain of every fire truck in the area carries a key that opens all of these boxes (you see them on schools, apartment buildings etc) and can access the key, mitigating the damage caused by forced entry in the event of a fire, and allowing the responding fire companies to quickly and reliably access every needed area of the building.
keys, we don't need no stinking keys!
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by Raccoon » 1 Jan 2007 21:20
Sorry for bringing this off topic; I'd like if a mod could split this into another thread if we continue.
But to answer briefly, it's just a word I made up to describe a master keying system that includes several subsets of doors that aren't supposed to be part of the same system, but are included for the sake of a Fire Marshal's emergency key, aka, the Fire Key which is locked up in the Knox Box outside the building. Since no human will have natural access to this key, it is a Hidden TMK. If it were a case where the building had a TMK that opened all doors, and could double as a Fire Key, I wouldn't call it this.
As far as the owners are concerned, no master key opens the exterior exits and secure records room, as required by law for this facility.
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by zeke79 » 1 Jan 2007 21:21
Most of the time in the US, these keys for a facility will be stored in a Knox Box which are a whole other security problem themselves.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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by Raccoon » 1 Jan 2007 21:27
Oh, and I guess it could refer to a key that isn't physically hidden, but exists in the system unbenounced to anyone else for unscrupulous use.
I would use this in the case of that construction company mentioned in a previous thread that was accused of possessing a master key that opened all the houses in a new subdivision. Since there was no authorized request for the doors to be mastered the same, I would call it a Hidden Master Key.
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by ldnlksmth » 1 Jan 2007 21:28
is there a master keying forum somewhere (I haven't found one yet).
I got a book for Christmas on the 'application, specification and management' of master key systems... very informative about their limitations, things to think about and how to keep them going. Not all the way through that, but I'd be happy to trade info with anyone who can concisely explain 'circular' master keying to me...
keys, we don't need no stinking keys!
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by Raccoon » 1 Jan 2007 21:37
ldnlksmth wrote:is there a master keying forum somewhere (I haven't found one yet).
I got a book for Christmas on the 'application, specification and management' of master key systems... very informative about their limitations, things to think about and how to keep them going. Not all the way through that, but I'd be happy to trade info with anyone who can concisely explain 'circular' master keying to me...
I have never heard of this term nor can I find it referenced anywhere. But I would say that it sounds like a type of selective keying that accomplishes a full circle of doors?
MK1 opens Doors A & B, MK2 opens B & C, MK3 opens C & A. This is the only thing I can imagine right now, but it doesn't sound terribly useful or significant.
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by ldnlksmth » 1 Jan 2007 21:51
from what I know of it, it's just a different method of deriving the changes, similar to a 'hold and vary' or 'rotating constant'. I don't know the details obviously, but under the GGMK, you end up with a number of GMK's, each of which have a number of MK's that have limited number of changes. The article I glanced at showed it as being set up so that each MK had 1, 3, 5, 7 etc up to 35 and then down again change keys under it. It looked like a fascinating system that could easily get a factory with lots of mechanical keys under control with many masters for foremen/supervisors of smaller departments, and just a few keys for the maintenance staff to carry.
keys, we don't need no stinking keys!
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by Raccoon » 1 Jan 2007 22:41
Well, having used master keying software and playing with all the settings, it really boils down to what keys you want to make considering the theory that you can have up to 32 keys per lock that is 5 pinned master. The smallest of master keys can open between 4 and 9 locks (depending on your steps), and the next may open 16 or 81, and so on exponentially.
If you generate a grid showing all possible differs, it just makes sense. I believe then all "types" of master keying can be plotted on this same grid.
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