Difficulty Scale

[g33kfu]

I'm somewhat new to locksport and am still not familiar with a lot of the locks that are out there which I'm sure a lot of people aren't. I would find great value if some of the more seniors members who have the time could create a picking difficulty scale that includes lock types/makes/models and rate/align them based upon their difficulty level. I know how easy or difficult a lock is to pick is often open to interpretation so this definitely wouldn't be a definitive guide but I think it would be something that people at all skill levels could utilize when determining what their next challenge should be.

Thanks

[bumpit]

Thats an awesome suggestion. It may be hard to find a senior member with lots of time on his hands though.

[melvin2001]

there is no definitive answer to is lock A easier then lock B. this is because although GENERALLY speaking a kwikset is easier to pick then a schlage, if a kwikset has a long bottom pin followed by a very short bottom pin (such as 72573) and a schalge is fairly even pinning (like23133) then the schlage will probably be easier to pick. if the kiwkset has security pins and the schalge doesn't then the kwikset will be much more difficult. if the lock is dirty or rusted or damaged then it will be harder to pick. locks of same make and model all have different quirks. lets say a lock manufacturer stops in the middle of manufacturing a batch of locks in order to replace the drill bit on one of the machines. this will totally change the tolerance of one lock to the next.

of course a medeco will pretty much always harder then a kwikset, that pretty much goes without saying. if you have a lock you want to pick do a search on it. if it is made by a high quality vendor, or is considered a high security lock you can safely assume it will be harder then any readily available lock. as far as locks that are mass produced and sold at home depot you can pretty safely assume they are easy to moderate to pick, depending on the bitting and security pins.

last but not least personal style greatly effects which locks are "easy" and which are "hard". after picking mostly schalge locks with different pin arrangements and security features, i tried to pick a masterlock and it took me 2 days. its not because i have any less skill then the next guy its just because my hands were used to something totally different and had to readjust. there really is no way to make a "difficulty bible" per say. maybe a set of guidelines and descriptions on different things that can effect the difficulty.

[JackNco]

as has been said there is no guide, here in the UK ive been getting on with some master locks (No 3 and No 140s, and on un numbered master), yale door locks and some garage door euro locks. plus some other cheap padlocks.

Ide recommend them from my limited knowledge. fill in your details it will help alot

John

[SmokieD]

I think thats a great idea the op suggested, which Ive thought about before. I think it is possible with the assumption that the locks would be brand new and repinned by the user. So they wouldnt be rusted or damaged like Melvin said. And the it could be noted whether the locks have security pins(how many, what type, types of drivers,) along with how many pins, and what transition are they in the lock. The difficulty comes with American and European locks, which there is a big and vast difference. In that note there could be two different sections, one listing American locks, and two listing European locks. The beginning could start with a brinks deadbolt then move up.
It could be interesting and a nice start for a new user, just requires a little bit of ambition. Not to rant any....

[Krypos]

as stated, it would be VERY hard to rate locks. however, here is a general guide just off the top of my head:

kwikset -common knockoffs include EZset, quickset, etc)

yale -this is deceitful, yales can range from anywhere to super hard to moderately, depending on keyway and pinning)

master -most master locks are padlocks, so you get anything from the famous combo lock, to the blue or yellow rimmed keyed locks to the infamous chrome locks (the 532 for instance)

schlage -again, schlage can be fairly easy, or fairly hard)

heres where things start to get tricky, because there are a number of mid-high level locks that are about even (IMO) included are:

russwin
sargent
yales (see above)
and a number of knockoffs of higher security things.

in the very hard section are lock brands such as:

medeco (we all know that one)
kaba
mul-t-lock
nearly any dimple lock
nearly any (or all) disc locks (not to be confused with warded etc, disc as in advanced forum disc)
and a large variety of higher level locks, some of which i dont even know about.
----------------------

so i am assuming that you are looking for a guide that roughly says: learn to pick this lock, and then this one and then this one, and your skills will progress. yes?

so first and foremost, you should follow digital_blues beginner exercise. you really need to follow that before deciding to move on to anything else. this will build you a foundation to work on for the rest of your picking life.

after that, usually what is best is to go with some kwiksets. they are common, cheap, can range in difficulty depending on a few things, and are easy to replace if you mess up something major.

--------------------

on related note, i am back at school now, back from winter break. and i as usual, have some spare time on my hands. so maybe i will write a guide while at school on a basic beginners lock choosing guide or something. no promises, and it would be biased as nearly any guide put together by one man, but it would be something. and i think i probably have the knowledge to throw something together for the newbies around the site. but again, no promises, i might get swamped with work and homework next week and not see the light of day til summer. i never know with these blasted schools and workplaces.

anyone disagree with my post here? if so, feel free to correct it with your own post, kindly please as i threw this together in a few minutes off the top of my head.

[sevenply]

It is hard to rank locks by difficulty but what if we had a table with the specs of common locks. I've actually made one for the locks I have. If we got a decent size list maybe we could sticky it at the top of the locks forum.

Code: Select all

Brand               # of pins      Security Pins
Fortress China 50MM         4         ?
Fortress Brass padlock      5         ?

Magnum China 50MM         4         ?

Master Lock #1            4         none
Master Lock #3            4         none
Master Lock #5            4         none
Master Lock #15            5         none

Schlage B362               5         4 spools


[greyman]

Good question. I have thought about this for a long time, and I have tried to address it in the book I have just written. What I did was list locks on a scale of 1 to 5 in terms of the average time it would take someone who really knows what they are doing to pick a lock of that type in lab conditions. There are many caveats and other factors to consider, such as the issues already mentioned here.

[g33kfu]

Thanks for the posts guys. I agree that it's virtually impossible due to personal preference and skill levels but Krypos hit it right on the head.

Also sevenply I think that would be a good idea.

[SmokieD]

so i am assuming that you are looking for a guide that roughly says: learn to pick this lock, and then this one and then this one, and your skills will progress. yes?

so first and foremost, you should follow digital_blues beginner exercise. you really need to follow that before deciding to move on to anything else. this will build you a foundation to work on for the rest of your picking life.

after that, usually what is best is to go with some kwiksets. they are common, cheap, can range in difficulty depending on a few things, and are easy to replace if you mess up something major.

--------------------.

Yeah Kwiset Security, and maximums(there isnt much difference) are great locks to start out on. And lowes and Home Depot have alot of knockoff brands like Defiant? and brinks deadbolt which cost under ten dollars. Those two are cheap and easy ways to learn how to pick locks.

on related note, i am back at school now, back from winter break. and i as usual, have some spare time on my hands. so maybe i will write a guide while at school on a basic beginners lock choosing guide or something. no promises, and it would be biased as nearly any guide put together by one man, but it would be something. and i think i probably have the knowledge to throw something together for the newbies around the site. but again, no promises, i might get swamped with work and homework next week and not see the light of day til summer. i never know with these blasted schools and workplaces.

anyone disagree with my post here? if so, feel free to correct it with your own post, kindly please as i threw this together in a few minutes off the top of my head.

To add to his/hers last post, a disclaimer should be at the top stating that this list is the easiest to hardest generally(not always) locks to picks. Some locks are rusted corroded, worn dorn, broken springs, which would make a fairly easy lock very difficult to pick. And pin configuration (as stated in someones previous post) could make a lock more difficult then it usually is, but the assumption should be made that these locks are brand new and repinned by the owner.

And last but not least, the type of pins(mushroom,spool,serrated etc) would be the cherry on the top. And what place are they in this brand/model of lock. Once or if you make your thread Krypos, experts will type their opinion agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that makes it all the more interesting. People in general learn easier if their is disagreement between two experts so they can forge their own opinion. How ever the list goes I know how it will end, MULTI LOCK.lol

[SmokieD]

so i am assuming that you are looking for a guide that roughly says: learn to pick this lock, and then this one and then this one, and your skills will progress. yes?

so first and foremost, you should follow digital_blues beginner exercise. you really need to follow that before deciding to move on to anything else. this will build you a foundation to work on for the rest of your picking life.

after that, usually what is best is to go with some kwiksets. they are common, cheap, can range in difficulty depending on a few things, and are easy to replace if you mess up something major.

--------------------.

Yeah Kwiset Security, and maximums(there isnt much difference) are great locks to start out on. And lowes and Home Depot have alot of knockoff brands like Defiant? and brinks deadbolt which cost under ten dollars. Those two are cheap and easy ways to learn how to pick locks.

on related note, i am back at school now, back from winter break. and i as usual, have some spare time on my hands. so maybe i will write a guide while at school on a basic beginners lock choosing guide or something. no promises, and it would be biased as nearly any guide put together by one man, but it would be something. and i think i probably have the knowledge to throw something together for the newbies around the site. but again, no promises, i might get swamped with work and homework next week and not see the light of day til summer. i never know with these blasted schools and workplaces.

anyone disagree with my post here? if so, feel free to correct it with your own post, kindly please as i threw this together in a few minutes off the top of my head.

To add to his/hers last post, a disclaimer should be at the top stating that this list is the easiest to hardest generally(not always) locks to picks. Some locks are rusted corroded, worn dorn, broken springs, which would make a fairly easy lock very difficult to pick. And pin configuration (as stated in someones previous post) could make a lock more difficult then it usually is, but the assumption should be made that these locks are brand new and repinned by the owner.

And last but not least, the type of pins(mushroom,spool,serrated etc) would be the cherry on the top. And what place are they in this brand/model of lock. Once or if you make your thread Krypos, experts will type their opinion agreeing or disagreeing with you, but that makes it all the more interesting. People in general learn easier if their is disagreement between two experts so they can forge their own opinion. How ever the list goes I know how it will end, MULTI LOCK.lol

[Krypos]

lol. nice. double posted.

yeah, i think the list should assume the locks to be in new, straight outta the wrapper condition, which means that dirt, grime, corrosion, etc should not take effect into the overall outcome of said locks.


and i have yet to even start. although, i might have more time than i expected now due to unforeseen consequences. so i might still make it. if i even can.

[SmokieD]

Yeah hopefully a nice mod will delete it and spare me the embarrassment. .....but dont feel pressured like you have to make a thread about it, if you have the spare time, go for it. What you typed up in your previous post was a good start, a little unpolished, but a good start. The whole idea of a this potential thread is to give people a better understanding about locks. And people would like that..