Question on Thai Padlock (TIGON)

[sas_z10]

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a padlock I've come across in Thailand. It's called a "Extra Plus - TIGON - Top Security". Strange PL I've never seen other than here. The key is un-usual; it is more the shape of a "4" sided Allen Wrench, with unlocking cut's made at about 10:00 & 4:00 when looking the entry point. There are no disernable pins, nothing visible to manipulate. When the key is inserted there is no internal forced excerted; it merely turns the core. It is not apparent there are any internal springs; after the key is turned it does not "pop" open, e.g. Master Lock, you have to manually pull the shackle out & free.

Has anyone seen these or have a suggestion as far as manipulation. As there are NO spring loaded pins a normal pick & wrench are useless. As are shims; I've tried commercial to fabricated for this PL.

Any Ideas?

[raimundo]

the key is a square post, with some cuts on the edges, like kryptonites new double sided abloy system? I think this is an old lock design in thailand, but the same principle as an abloy just discs that align and work somewhat like tumblers on a dial combination, except that they are all set simultaneously by the square shaft key.

[unbreakable]

I found one at the local dollar store- heres my thread
viewtopic.php?t=13864&highlight=dollar

And heres the pics, they seem to have been moved since- http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h192/ ... 20Padlock/

Hope this helps, there was a nice discussion about them in the origional thread.

[mh]

If the pictures above do not describe your lock - could you post pictures of your lock?

[unbreakable]

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a padlock I've come across in Thailand. It's called a "Extra Plus - TIGON - Top Security".

I bet they're the same, I'll be surprised if theyre not.

[Stray]

I cut mine open I'll take pictures now show how it is made.

[Stray]

well as promised (I was going to make a pdf about this but I just took some quick pictures now since the Poster doesn't have too much time to wait for a PDF explaining it.

Ok Here is my lock (chrome peeled off because i took it to grinder wheel and it got very very hot... lol


Next is a picture of the bottom of my lock with everything removed except the sleeve that turns to free the shackle.


Here is the sleeve ballbearings and shackle removed (as you can tell I didn't quite know how i was going to get the lock open...)


Lastly this is all the parts of this lock minus the key.... as you can see there are 8 disks and 8 spacers. there are 2 types of disks the 4 that turn the plug (on the right) they correspond to the places on the key where there are no cuts and 4 that are there just to keep the sleeve from turning if someone was to stick an object in and turn everything they do not force on the sleeve at all. In my lock all 4 are all identical.




And that is a Tigon Lock. (had I known how It worked before I destroyed it I Probably would have been able to "pick" it, well until I find another one I guess I will never know lol.)

[mh]

Nice pictures!
I cut something similar, too, it's in my sig
mh

[LockNewbie21]

Hey that reminds me i have one like that i got from tractor supply the piss me off because i can't pick them.

I always thought you would need a two in one falle style to pick one.

Perhaps i'm wrong

[greyman]

Looks like a cheap rip-off of the Abus Plus disc mechanism, which is a derivative of Abloy. Abus started making these in the early 1980s and many others followed suit. It must be that Abus was unable to patent the design since it's too similar to Abloy (though it's also significantly different since the key is reversible). I've also seen this type of clone in Malaysia, there it was called Rocket or something. Not sure if picking this type of lock is suitable for open forums since it's used a lot on bicycle and motocycle chain locks. But to fill you in, you don't so much pick it as decode it. Have a look around with the search and you might find something relevant.

Has anyone got a patent reference for the Abus mechanism? I'd be interested to know if it's covered or not.

[mh]

Has anyone got a patent reference for the Abus mechanism? I'd be interested to know if it's covered or not.

As far as I understand, DE 9418309 U1 is the ABUS X-Plus mechanism.

It has references to DE 3421754 C2 (apparently the Plus mechanism - this has more references again) and DE 3033247 C2 (a Finnish lock).

The dates don't match to "early 1980s", though.

Patents are fascinating stuff, if you find out more, let us know

Cheers,
mh

[greyman]

Thanks for that mh. I don't know if you can tell from the patent when exactly the lock went into production. I think the 1980s date is from Abus' web site. I think there is agreement that Abus did it first though and the after-market stuff is from Asia.

[mh]

Thanks for that mh. I don't know if you can tell from the patent when exactly the lock went into production. I think the 1980s date is from Abus' web site. I think there is agreement that Abus did it first though and the after-market stuff is from Asia.

Of course one cannot successfully apply for a patent after the product has been sold, but you are right;
I didn't pay close attention.
The priority date on DE 3421754 C2 (referring to the original ABUS Plus) is actually 12 June 1984.

The main claim in this patent however relates to a mechanism that 'loosely blocks' the discs in their 0 degree position, so that they don't turn during vibration, and so that the key can always be inserted properly.
The drawing shows a spring 33 for that.
Now - all ABUS Plus locks I've opened up so far didn't make use of that feature anyway.

Perhaps you were right in that they could not patent the basic mechanism.
I can't access the referenced patents DE 2944204 A1, DE 2717799 A1, DE 8333943 U1, or DE 560177 to read more about that.

Cheers,
mh

[greyman]

Of course one cannot successfully apply for a patent after the product has been sold, but you are right;
I didn't pay close attention.
The priority date on DE 3421754 C2 (referring to the original ABUS Plus) is actually 12 June 1984.

The main claim in this patent however relates to a mechanism that 'loosely blocks' the discs in their 0 degree position, so that they don't turn during vibration, and so that the key can always be inserted properly.
The drawing shows a spring 33 for that.
Now - all ABUS Plus locks I've opened up so far didn't make use of that feature anyway.

Perhaps you were right in that they could not patent the basic mechanism.
I can't access the referenced patents DE 2944204 A1, DE 2717799 A1, DE 8333943 U1, or DE 560177 to read more about that.

Cheers,
mh

mh, I had a look at the patents you posted. The Abus Plus one from 1984 does not show a picture of the key. I was a bit surprised by that. Perhaps there is another patent that we are missing, or maybe they didn't patent that part. The Abus Plus X patent from 1994 has (in Figs 8 & 9) a blocking disc a lot like a Kromer lock. There are drawings of the key in this one.

I don't know how long a patent protects for in Germany, but the Abus Plus clones started appearing in Asia at least as early as 1996, which is less than 12 years after the Abus Plus patent. My conclusion is that Abus either didn't patent the mechanism in Asia or they are ripping it off and getting away with it.

cheers

greyman

[mh]

mh, I had a look at the patents you posted. The Abus Plus one from 1984 does not show a picture of the key. I was a bit surprised by that. Perhaps there is another patent that we are missing, or maybe they didn't patent that part.

The main claim in this patent relates to a mechanism that 'loosely blocks' the discs in their 0 degree position, so that they don't turn during vibration, and so that the key can always be inserted properly.
The drawing shows a spring 33 for that.

It's not about the disc tumbler mechanism as such.

Cheers,
mh