Security pin picking - skills and technique (help)

[cyclops1101]

Hi all,
First things first I would like to introduce myself. Im Cyke, an amatuer hobbiest and lock enthusiast.
Its great to be here.
Now onto the subject.
I am in possesion of a Tri-circle 265 which I believe to have mushroom pins installed. After numerous attempts I have only been able to pick this lock once(luck must of had been on my side).
My question is how does one bind all the key pins (I read this technique can work to gently manipulate the key pins to shear) I have tried but they will not bind .
I would greatly appreciate all help and advice and any other techniques that can help me get all those pins to shear!

[cyclops1101]

Hi all,
My question is how does one bind all the key pins (I read this technique can work to gently manipulate the key pins to shear) I have tried but they will not bind .

Sorry I should of mentioned that I apply the most tension possible with the wrench but no luck.
Plus I dont actually understand how the binding and scrubbing technique works on a whole because arent all the pins different widths? i.e the picking order.

[Krypos]

ok here goes. im at school, so bear with me.

first off, scrubbing is an old term. it is commonly refered to as raking now.

next, the real key to picking is light tension, not heavy tension. try just bearly resting your finger on the tension wrench.

to answer your question: one cannot bind ALL the pins at once. you actually must bind one (sometimes a few, but for single pin picking one) pin at a time, after you bind this pin, you set it at the shear line, and then move onto the next pin. this is the entire process behind single pin picking.

and yes, picking order does differ widely from lock to lock.

also, welcome. you are new to the site. you may (read: should) fill in your profile to show where you are in the world.


lastly, you may want to start with a different lock. i am aware that you have probably picked before, and so you are familiar with the basics (maybe) but you will probably want to run through digital_blue's beginner exercise. this thread will help you immensely. check it out. and browse around and just read stuff. it can really make a difference.

hope that helps!

[Deathadder]

I also suggest Digital_Blue's guide, which can be found here: viewtopic.php?t=10677

However, there is a thread that suggests the lock you have is repinnable, by repinning the lock as shown above, you can learn not only how a normal lock works, but also a more difficult one. The link to the thread is here: viewtopic.php?t=10665

Good luck and happy picking

[cyclops1101]

Great, Thanks for the info. I will check out the links immediatly.
Watch this space

[mercurial]

I must agree with Krypos & Deathadder - start working your way thrugh digital_blue's pin-by-pin exercise, with a lock you can repin easily.

The link provided by Deathadder does give instructions for repinning the TriCircle you have, but if I recall it is semi-destructive. A simple deadlock cylinder that you can repin without cutting/drilling would be a much easier place to start if you are very new to this hobby.

Also, I suspect the OP might have been referring to "reverse picking" - raise all pins, apply very high tension to bind the pin stacks, followed by gently raking the pins whilst slowly reducing the tension, easing the key pins back below the shear line. Security top-pins are removed from the equation when using this method, as they remain completely within the bible.

If this is the case, I'd leave learning to reverse pick(and more conventional forms of raking for that matter) for the timebeing, until you have built up your ability with single-oin picking on locks without security pins.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

[cyclops1101]

So the best way to learn to bypass a security lock(mushroom, spool pins etc) would be to learn to lift/pick one tumbler, which in turn will give the required feedback to pick say a 5pin security lock.
I will definatly give Digital_blues stage pick exercises a try as soon as I purchase the tools nessacery to dissasemble my tri-circle. Or purchase a simple deadlock cylinder(thanks for the tip).

I would still like to indulge in the theory of security pin picking, as i have been able to pick all standard pin locks that I have had legal access to! .
So if a lock is loaded with mushroom pins there will be a binding mushroom when tension is applied that needs to be picked first(am i correct) and then onto the next. So if that is correct the problem arises when the driver pin becomes false set therby preventing any further bypass. As mentioned previously light tension can overcome this but as I have not trained with the feel of the security driver pins how does one know when the shear line has been reached i.e with light tension wont overlifting then become a problem or alternativly not set at all.
I guess I really need to practice, but would love to hear all your experiences with bypassing these locks untill I can!

[cyclops1101]

Are Snappers and pick-guns effective on security pins? Infact which is the better bypasser the snap or the gun? and can these be used on high-low combinations of pin stacks?
I ask only because of curiosity. I myself prefer the one pin at a time technique. Its all about the skill is it not?

[Isakill]

So the best way to learn to bypass a security lock(mushroom, spool pins etc) would be to learn to lift/pick one tumbler, which in turn will give the required feedback to pick say a 5pin security lock.

Yes, in fact doing it that way will give you more of a feeling of what needs to happen. E.G. Do I need to let up on tension or give a little more.

So if a lock is loaded with mushroom pins there will be a binding mushroom when tension is applied that needs to be picked first

Well that can be a touchy subject. Mushroom pins are designed to not only bind but jam up giving the picker a "false set" and making it more difficult to set the pins. Serrated and spools are the same way. These pins are engineered to deceive the picker into that condition.

As mentioned previously light tension can overcome this but as I have not trained with the feel of the security driver pins how does one know when the shear line has been reached i.e with light tension wont overlifting then become a problem or alternativly not set at all.

I can't fully explain this situation to you. it's all about practice and lots of it.
the best way to do it is to get a good cylinder (Schlage would be a good start) without security pins and work on that. the reason I suggest this is because the mid-ranged security cylinders have higher tolerances than say a kwickset one.

[Deathadder]

. A simple deadlock cylinder that you can repin without cutting/drilling would be a much easier place to start if you are very new to this hobby.

I was using this in terms of future reference, if he is just starting, this would be good for later on, when he can't get any repinnable hard locks such as this. This is definitely not a noob lock... but it would be good for him to (later on) experiment with security pins and such.

[m3ph15t0]

Hey, I'm sorry to change the subject a little, but could someone with knowledge expound upon this "reverse picking" concept, because spp-ing security pins is killing me and I was wondering if this might be eaiser, or faster, or somthing of that nature.

and that ^ is the longest sentence I've ever written.

[Vincent-XXI]

Hey, I'm sorry to change the subject a little, but could someone with knowledge expound upon this "reverse picking" concept, You lift all pins up, say with another tension tool, then apply heavy tension so all pins at forced to bind. THe bottom pins are binding in this case as they should all have been overlifted, the driver ins will all be well above the shear line.

Raking the pins while slowly reducing the tension encourages the bottom pins to drop back into the keyway, whill the drivers also drop but come to rest at the shear line.

[cyclops1101]

Ive tried reverse picking, raking, individual lifting, pulling faces and then giving up and picking a standard lock .
Im unsure as to how to proceed with this tri-circle and/or other security locks (Will try sidebars if and when security pins become no probs, i hope!)
I am really tempted to buy a repinnable practise lock(can anybody help me find a euro cylinder that does not need cutting etc?) but I dont really understand how this will give me the skill and technique to overcome these darn pins.
Can anyone offer me some more help??
e.g practical experience etc

[cyclops1101]

Mushroom, spool and serrated.
Do these three not do the same thing? I.e they all give the same signals and prevent picking.
Is one more difficult than the other - is there a difficulty scale? and can skilled bypass techniques really work?

[UWSDWF]

check out near the bottom of this page

http://www.crypto.com/papers/notes/picking/