Made Bump keys, got questions.

[klown]

As I stated in a earlier post I signed on with my local Locksmith. He is pretty old school and doesn't have a internet connection. I let him know about about bump keys and brought home some info. I went by his shop the next day and he had made some. A yale, weiser, and schlage. But the peaks on the weiser and schlage did not look high enough. I did not criticize him instead I took the yale that looked right to the local Wal-Mart and had a schlage and weiser cut with the same dimensions as the yale he had cut. Got them home and I found that I couoldn't get them to work. The schlage worked a couple of times but mostly my fingers hurts from whacking them with the back of a screw driver. I posted some pics on photobucket and this is my first attempt at providing a link so I hope it works. Could any of you guys familiar with bumping look at the keys and see if they look right or if something needs to be change. And possibly provide advice on the technique. I don't think I'm over torqueing.
Here is the link:

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/ ... G_0288.jpg

[klown]

Here is another pic with keys made by him and the ones i had made:

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/ ... G_0282.jpg

[Shrub]

Its the cuts that the pins sit in not the peaks, the peaks can be very low as low as a few mm really as long as the edges of the cuts are hitting the pins,

Making a bum key off another key meant for another lock is never goign to work, each lock has its own spacing and depth,

You need a key cut to the right depth and space for the lock you want to bump,

[Shrub]

Looking at your pic the steel ones look a mess as well, sorry,

[klown]

So your saying the keys I had made at wal-mart are not going to work because they are copies of the keys that the LS made. The only one I got to actually work was the schlage I had made at the store. Are you also saying that even though the peaks on the brass keys he made are so short they still should work?

[klown]

Thanks for your honesty I will scrap them. I sthere a link you know of or a template to were I can file my own keys?

[zeke79]

Sounds to me like the problem is the fact that you copied a yale key onto a schlage blank. This will not work becuase the locks have different spacing and depths.

[Shrub]

I meant what Zeke said,

Get a working key copied and file that down to the right depth,

Pointless scrapping them they be useful for somthing one day just put them on a keyring and stick them in a draw you may be glad of them one day while experimenting,

[klown]

Thanks for the advice guys, anyone have any ideas besides a screwdriver handle as a bumping tool. Agian on the pic of the schlage key (brass) is that peak to shallow?

[unjust]

is it just me or do the wally world keys look to have different depth cuts across them? esp at the tip pin?

[zeke79]

I noticed that too. I find alot of keys duped at walmart are not right. Usually have a 50% working ratio.

[zeke79]

Different cutters will do different things. The one pictured was cut on my hpc blitz using a standard cutter and widening the cuts as indicated on the card.

My framon 2D will also cut these keys with a standard cutter widening them out, but I also have a kwikset spec cutter for it and it leaves much smaller "peaks" between cuts. The keys still bump locks but the appearance is different. I suspect the lockie you speak of used a factory spec cutter on some of the keys.

Here is a pic of a bumpkey cut from my hpc blitz

[unjust]

some mfgs use different angles of attack for the cuts between pins right?. that and pin width clear area will dramatically affect size of peaks.


in *theory* you want the attack angle of the peak to be 45 off of the keyway, but altering that can shift the force transfered. any more and you'll be applying unnecessary shear to the pins although less (provided still a functional distance) could provide for a less destructive and controled aplication of force, although possibly not -enough- force.

if the peaks are far enough apart as to not engauge the pins (pin seats are too wide) the key's won't do their job.

so. anyone got a chart of pin size and location changes across mfgs for typical keys? shoudl be simple to layout a max/min tolerance for bump keys from that no?

[JackNco]

Thanks for the advice guys, anyone have any ideas besides a screwdriver handle as a bumping tool. Agian on the pic of the schlage key (brass) is that peak to shallow?

I use a long shackled master padlock. works ok but since the plastic cover came off i break more bump keys. you could buy a tomahawk and a break knife is meant to be a good substitution. just dont cut ur self. maybe wrap some duct tape round the blade of an old one.

[fredflank]

I must say, I'm impressed with the photo of the key you posted, Zeke. That's as perfect a specimen as I've seen. As an alternative for those of us that don't have a code machine, I've tried (and hopefully succeeded) to post a photo of my key. The top photo is a commercially purchased bump key. I can't open anything with it (even with a KEH2). The middle key is a #5 depth key (yes, I know it isn't the deepest cut). I copied the middle key using a 1mm shim to move the cuts 1mm forward on the copy (bottom key). I then filed the cuts with a small round file to lower the cuts to at or below depth #6. The result is the bottom key. Doing it this way gave me a key with slightly higher peaks. This seems to have done the trick. Moving the cuts 1mm forward eliminated the need for modification (I didn't have to file the tip or shoulder), and the slightly higher peaks seem to work. i noticed under light & magnification that the indents caused by the pins are about 3/4 of the way up to the peaks. I've been picking for over 30 years, and while the novelty of bumping wears off after a short while, it is a handy tool when all else fails. Hope this info is useful to someone.