Rim Cylinder locks

[g5]

Even after doing some research, I'm a little confused as to what exactly rim cylinder locks fit into. I know they fit into the big latch-style deadbolts, but is it possible that one could fit into a traditional deadbolt?

I have a door with an Amerock (read: crap) deadbolt that isn't one piece: there is a hole drilled in the door that the cylinder itself fits through (about 1.5 inches) and then a trim piece the size of a regular deadbolt (2 1/8 inch) that fits around it. It appears like a regular deadbolt...until you take it apart . Might a rim cylinder lock fit this deadbolt? The only reason that I think it could work is because the cylinder of this crappy deadbolt looks like a rim-cylinder lock, as pictured below:

[2octops]

I am not familiar with the lock you are talking about, but I don't think that a rim cylinder will work.

Rim cylinders have a fixed tail piece. So when you turned the key to throw the bolt, you would not be able to get your key out without turning it back, retracting the bolt.

Typically rim cylinders are used in commercial applications such as panic bars and exit devices. They are also used in many cheap residential garage door locks.

[stilte]

What are 'traditional' deadbolts like? The lock in the photo looks like a mortise cylinder.

[raimundo]

Rim cylinders have rings that fit the cylinder to help mount it to the door, the one on the front may be called the escution or something like that, the back side is mounted with another plate that will have three holes in it, two for the mounting bolts, and one for the tailpiece of the plug, there is some interchangeability to these locks, look closely at this inner plate with the three holes, compare it to other plates from rim cylinders of different manufacture, if the holes are centered exactly, you have interchangeablity, if they are not, if they are even a little bit off, you could have problems getting it to fit through the back of the deadbolt which also has the three holes, this is where you will find the problems developing if someone put a rim cylinder into a deadbolt that its not related to. when working on such locks, its good to be aware that this mixing of parts may have been done before you got the job. And this could be causeing the malfunction, landlords, typically have a lot of old locks in there maintainence shop, and the parts are mixed up, though the locks may be bought in various places and times, from different manufacturers.

[g5]

Rim cylinders have a fixed tail piece. So when you turned the key to throw the bolt, you would not be able to get your key out without turning it back, retracting the bolt.

Okay, in that case, it definitely would not work in a deadbolt application. Thanks!

[raimundo]

rim cylinders do not all have fixed tailpieces, most have play in the tail piece of about 180 degrees. A lazy cam type, you can lock or unlock from either side of the door regardless of which side was locked last.

[Raccoon]

I could be mistaken, but I DO call the above pictured a rim cylinder. I just worked on 2 deadbolts this weak which had a flipper latch (not exactly a thumb-turn) on the inside, and a rim that is inserted from the outside and screwed in from the inside.

From my understanding, the only difference between a rim cylinder and a key-in-knob cylinder (which can also be used in deadbolts) is that the cylinder is permanently attached to the face/finish and is affixed to the door by screws (like a kik). The face of the lock resembles a mortise cylinder. You cannot tell a rim cylinder apart from a mortise cylinder by looking at the face alone, though rim cylinders usually have a larger rose (plate) between it and the door to cover a larger hole.

Again, I may be way off.

[raimundo]

mortise locks are buried inside the wood of the door, in a cutout that on the old lever locks was exactly like the cutout refered to in (mortise and tenon joints) rim cylinders, go through a round hole in the door, and are affixed to the rim of this hole by plates and collars that reinforce the area, the boltwork is not inside the wood, but is screwed to the back side of the door. Also, when a lock is called a cam lock, it is made for locking cheap steel cabinetry, the kind found in every modern office, the cam refered to is the actual bolt of the lock, these cams come in various lengths and bends to fit the particular sheet metal furniture. thus a medeco cam and a cheap wafer cam lock are both cam locks because they swing a cam to lock the furniture.

[2octops]

rim cylinders do not all have fixed tailpieces, most have play in the tail piece of about 180 degrees. A lazy cam type, you can lock or unlock from either side of the door regardless of which side was locked last.

Who makes a lazy tailpiece rim cylinder? Are you referring to one with a screw on cap type cylinder with the tailpiece sticking out? If so, I want to know who makes it and where to get it.

[raimundo]

schlage comes to mind, but a lot of them are. I leave it to others to confirm this.

[raimundo]

by lazy cam like, I mean that there is 180 degrees of freeplay before the plug starts to move the tailpiece, I do not mean a full lever like the inside of a car door, I am refering to the 180 degrees of freeplay on the end of the tailpiece. think about it, if the freeplay was not there, if someone was inside and locked the door, the key could not open it from the other side.

[n2oah]

Moritse cylinder operate in fixtures that are physically inside of (mortised inside of) the door. Rim cylinders operate in fixtures that are on the surface of the door, however, the the cylinder still goes through the door, but the lock fixture is not inside the door.
You're probably looking for a deadbolt cylinder. I've seen some deadbolts that have KIK-like cylinders inside of them and I have seen ones that have a more of a rim-type cylinder in them. You need to take apart your lock to see what it actually uses.

[c123]

Mr. n2oah got it right. A rim cyl has 2 screws that hold the lock to the door and I can't think of any rim cyl's with "lazy" tailpieces. offhand. Mortise cyl's have threads around the lock body and are either hold in with a small set screw or have a large nut to hold it in place such as on panic exit bars that can be dogged down (unlocked) Here is a handy repair tip.... the threads on a standard mortise cyl can be repaired by raking a 10/32 tap around the cyl.
I just lock the tap in a needle nose vise grip and use a scrapping motion around the cyl... works great when the cyl doesn't want to go back in.

[zeke79]

Schlage rims sometimes have the screw on cap with a lazy tailpiece.

[2octops]

That is a deadbolt cylinder or someone put the wrong tailpiece in your box.