Help - Frozen Tumbler- Very Embarrassing

[David40]

Here is my sad story. I work for real estate companies and because of the difficulties with finding keys and scheduling I taught myself how to pick locks. I've become pretty good at it. Yesterday I was doing some work in an apartment and the owner had to leave but the place only has a single dead bolt so when leaving there is no way to lock the door without a key. I told her no problem I can lock the door without the key when I leave. So that is what I did. I picked the lock to lock the door instead of the usual case of unlocking a door. I get a frantic call later that evening from the realtor that the woman is locked out and they can't even get the key in the slot. I went there immediately and found that they were correct. Somehow when I spun the tumbler around to lock the door the pins froze in the extended position. I tried everything and could not get those pins to retract. It was stuck in the upside down position. I ended up having to drill out the lock and install a new one. Very embarrassing with five people with bags of groceries looking on. So my question is... What the hell happened!??! Never ran into this before and I sure would like to understand what I did wrong and how to avoid it in the future. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[UWSDWF]

you spun the plug more 180 degrees and the driver pins snaped into the key way is what it sounds like to me.....

did I ever mention....
DO NOT PICK LOCKS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE RELY ON
I repeat DO NOT PICK LOCKS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE RELY ON, they can and will break, then your house/car/safe/chasity belt is vulnerable or unable to be opened (think: emergency situation).

[parapilot]

. I ended up having to drill out the lock and install a new one. Very embarrassing

Ah dear! something that would have took 1.3 seconds to fix!! Maybe you should start using the keys! Picking locks in use is bad practice unless you really have to.

[David40]

Gee, thanks parapilot I would have never been able to figure out that using the key would have been a better thing to do. And also, thanks for letting me know I could have fixed the problem in seconds instead of having to spend two hours getting and installing a new lock. I suppose it would be asking too much for you to actually tell me what it is I could have done to fix it easily?
You know my real expertice is that I'm a Master Electrician and I practically make my living coming behind amateur electricians and incompetent homeowners who know just enough to get themselves into trouble. But you know at least I'm civil with them and treat them with respect. I don't ridicule them or torment them by telling them how easily I could have done the work and then withhold telling how they could have done the job correctly. Maybe some day you'll screw up some electrical project you foolishly decided to do at your house and you'll come to the electrical forum to get some advice, and I'll get the chance to be a smart ass and tell you that you should have hired an electrician.
UWSDWF thanks for the information. I'm not sure why rotating the plug with a pick would be any different than doing it with the key but at least that gives me something to research and learn about. Maybe I'll get an old Yale lock and dissect it.

[zeke79]

Ok, in short what happened is this. You picked the lock and rotated the plug 180 degrees or more. When rotating back to the operating posistion the driver pins fell into the bottom of the keyway making it feel as though you had spun the plug back to the correct position but actually it was 180 degrees off ie, the keyway was upside down from normal operating position.

What you can do to remedy this is insert your pick and use the back of the pick shaft to lift the driver pins back into the shell. This will allow the plug to finish rotating back to the proper position.

This does not happen with a key since the key fills the open bottom of the keyway. Take the key out of the picture and the bottom of the keyway is just wide enough to allow the top pins to partially fall in there blocking the plug.

[TOWCH]

When this happens, use the back of a halve diamond at the base of the keyway to push the top pins back up and rotate the plug. We've all done it. I drilled one myself for the same reason. It's the main reason not to pick locks your rely on though with fragile wafer locks being the main other one.

You would probably be fine carrying on as you are so long as you know how to fix this problem, stay away from cars, and are understanding that there are slight lock out risks involved. It's possible to screw up masterkeyed locks in a similar manor, and to wear pins on a worn lock to the point of making the key not work. The last one is usually only an issue with violent raking. BE GENTLE TO WAFER LOCKS. Most of my "Oh sh**!" screw-ups have been car ignitions.

[UWSDWF]

well, when the key is in the lock it fills the keyway and will not allow the pins to fall in versus with a pick and tension wrench there's room for them to do so....


to fix the problem (although it wasn't nessicary to so rude to para. instead of just asking how) take a pick put it in the lock upside down... now push the driver pins up, this should allow you to turn the plug and return it to the proper position and fix the problem


anotehr problem that i see you need to tackle is that it took you 2hrs to drill out and install a new lock, unless the hardware store to buy the new lock was really far away, that is way way too long a time for that task

[parapilot]

lol

Maybe I'll get an old Yale lock and dissect it.

If you are picking peoples 'live' locks you really should. And if you get chance ask here before you drill anything. Did it really take 2 hours to drill??? Use a key if at all possible, and don't get into the habit of picking to save time cos you can! But if you are still going to pick, read this site over twice... then there wont be much you don't know.

[burchlockkey]

did I ever mention....
DO NOT PICK LOCKS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE RELY ON
I repeat DO NOT PICK LOCKS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE RELY ON, they can and will break, then your house/car/safe/chasity belt is vulnerable or unable to be opened (think: emergency situation).

I think you might have mentioned that before.....

[raimundo]

maybe he could make a tensor that will hold the pins up in that lock, like some bladed bike spoke material that goes in to the 5 or 6 pin depth, fitting and filling that keyway.
The reason you have not encountered this before, is because many or most brands of lock do not have the problem, the bottom of the keyways are too narrow for the top pins to drop into, What was the brand of lock? Is this problem dealt with in any of the animations that are linked to around here? that would be the way to show him how this happens, and has it occured to you that the problem may not be this problem, that some other thing was the cause of it becoming frozen, such as not enough play in the tail piece after it got trapped at the end of a turn. WE SHOULD GIVE THIS SIMPLE COMMON PROBLEM A NAME SO WE CAN REFER TO IT WITHOUT HAVEING TO USE THE DISCRIPTION. Call it 'toppin lockup' or something

[RangerF150]

Hi David40,
I have a couple of practice locks that do this, and it is easy to fix when you have it in your hand and can see what's goin on.

I have done maintenance work for plenty for years ( gave it up, not worth the effort!) , my concern would be that people would get the wrong idea if I told them "not to worry I can close/open the lock without a key" !

The word gets out on the street that this guy can open locks without a key, and the customer is thinking "hey this guy could break into my apartment" , that is not good!

I never nor would ever open a live lock, unless your a locksmith, I would keep your ability to yourself, before the law end up talking to you over something you know nothing about, but your name came up as "someone that can open a lock without a key" ....


This is not a flame , just helpful advice !!!!
Good luck dude

[unjust]

we get a lot of first posts here that ignore the rules of the community.

a lot fo people who get told those rules get upset, as a lot of us are more than a little snarky about having to repeat things ad nauseum.

think of it this way: how many non sparkies have blown something by working on a live circuit. how could they be so dumb? (former ME here)

how in the name of the monkey gods did it take you 2 hours to swap a lock out? ok an hour round trip to go to home despot and back, then 30 minutes to use a plasma torch to open the blister pack, then you've got all of 3~9 screws to make go in and out, and a few things to shove in an existing hole, which shouldnt' take the remaining 30 min.

[David40]

Wow, Thanks for the help. I dug an old deadbolt lock out of the garage and took it apart. Duh!! It was like a light went on. I can see where all I had to do was push up all the driver pins at the same time. God I feel so stupid for not having seen that.
No, It only took a few minutes to drill out the old lock. The rest of the time was spent driving back and forth to pick up a new lock which only took about five minutes to install.
Thanks for the warning about advertising the ability to open locks. The point is well taken. Most of my customers I have work for many years. I have a dresser drawer full of keys to their homes and busnesses that they gave to me to keep. I guess I've been very lucky to have never been accused of anything. I'll have to watch that in the future.
Again thanks all.

[Spike666]

Yes they are absolutely right do not advertise word of mouth that you can pick. I am a locksmith and have been for years other than business no one knows. and furthermore i dont say things like I dont need a key or i break into everything everyday (as I do) because people in our society do not feel comfortable knowing anything that we do. in fact my commercial customers routinely pay my rates to find security breeches in their business and then their homes.

well a tough lesson learned for something so simple. EVERYONE has done something like that before in some aspect of their life. glad to have ya, and I am glad you got some advise not just abused.

[raimundo]

easy as it is to lift all the pins with the back of a pick, I don't, for me, I just rake the row with the tip of a half diamond or even rake it with a rake and they all set up where I want them. only quicker by the time it takes to turn the pick over vs not having to.