Keyless Locks And The Future?

[greyman]

Here is something to consider regarding electronic locks of any kind. Once the locks interface becomes electronic in nature, brute forcing combination codes becomes easier. I've built equipment for doing this. If you've ever heard of a stepper motor used to brute force the combination to a safe, just think of an electronic circuit whirring away as fast as the interface will accept combinations. Who cares if the lock is capable of 200 million combinations, when you can try them all in 45 seconds the point is moot.

Fair enough if the electronic system lets you cycle through all the codes that fast, but the nature of electronic systems is that they can be programmed not to accept, say more than 3 incorrect attempts before they shut down or time out. I would say brute forcing is in general not possible for electronic systems, at least if they are designed properly.

[capt.dunc]

interesting that no one's mentioned exits, in the event of an emergancy ie fire, the exiting system often has an easy to use manual system, i think we'd see more bypass techniques attacking these. there are also areas secured which you enter without passing through security first, ie sailing into a marina.

[webidiot2]

I'll keep it short and sweet. Locksmiths deal with locks right? Mechanical or electronic, Locksmiths will still be installing, picking, and bypassing them 100 years from now no matter what they are.

[webidiot2]

I'll keep it short and sweet. Locksmiths deal with locks right? Mechanical or electronic, Locksmiths will still be installing, picking, and bypassing them 100 years from now no matter what they are.

[raimundo]

Next time your in an office looking at the cables on the back of some computer while a bureaucrite (bureaucrat+hypocrite) is looking at personal information about you that they refuse to show you think about what would happen if you took a 60000volt stun gun to the pins and ports on the back of that machine.

[UWSDWF]

I just start quoting PIPEDA if its on a computer or FIPPA if it's paper... most people then have no issues showing me info about myself at that point.... you folk in the US have both of them acts rolled up into one, kinda at least, called FOIA, of which most low level "bureaucrite"s have some idea but little idea of but it scares them in to submission most of the time..... handy little things to know about

[raimundo]

freedom of information act is one of the laws that the government breaks, how can they remain powerful if the people start knowing what their doing. the junta has overthown government of laws, it likes personality cults instead. maybe Jan 20 2009 will be the end of an error.
As for electronics, look around and find something electronic that is more than ten years old and still functions, do you have anything like that? maybe the tv but most microcircuitry is prey to the second law of thermodynamics.

[greyman]

raimundo, verily do you speak in riddles

[tommy15]

Im considering a career in locksmithing at the moment. My only concern was this topic .. electronics taking over mechanical locks.

I dont think price will remain an issue for long. As we all know, all electronic devices become cheap as chips before long.

I am concerned that computer experts, ie hackers, will be needed for calls to lockouts. Im only young, 24 years old. Im really needing to find a career that is secure and will sustain me for the rest of my life.

With the electronic car keys working with imobilizers, already, im guessing, automotive call outs declining rapidly. In this country, all cars manufactured after '95 had to have the electronic key and fitted with immobilizer.

Anyhow, on the positive side, its possible that electronic locks will not become common place in residential situations for a long time. Current locks offer enough security as it is. Burglars pry open doors with crowbars, kick them in, break windows, ect. Keyless systems arent going to change that.

I want to be trained in traditional locksmithing, and in additional do courses concerned with electronic security. Im never going to be able to be an expert locksmith and an expert computer hacker, but atleast if i am up to date with electronic security, maybe i can go into installation, maintanence, consulting, ect. Just some thoughts.

[arris]

I got lent a book wich is A encyclopeadia of locks and builders hardware, by union,

1st publication was in 1958, then reprint in 1968 then 2nd reprint in 1979,

and a small quote from the introduction

Maybe when the millennium is achieved key operated locks will not be required but presumably the winds will blow and doors will have to kept closed and so at least latches will be essential commodities

[globallockytoo]

Im considering a career in locksmithing at the moment. My only concern was this topic .. electronics taking over mechanical locks.

I dont think price will remain an issue for long. As we all know, all electronic devices become cheap as chips before long.

I am concerned that computer experts, ie hackers, will be needed for calls to lockouts. Im only young, 24 years old. Im really needing to find a career that is secure and will sustain me for the rest of my life.

With the electronic car keys working with imobilizers, already, im guessing, automotive call outs declining rapidly. In this country, all cars manufactured after '95 had to have the electronic key and fitted with immobilizer.

Anyhow, on the positive side, its possible that electronic locks will not become common place in residential situations for a long time. Current locks offer enough security as it is. Burglars pry open doors with crowbars, kick them in, break windows, ect. Keyless systems arent going to change that.

I want to be trained in traditional locksmithing, and in additional do courses concerned with electronic security. Im never going to be able to be an expert locksmith and an expert computer hacker, but atleast if i am up to date with electronic security, maybe i can go into installation, maintanence, consulting, ect. Just some thoughts.

Tommy15,
I would suggest talking to the MLAA or some locksmiths. There are always companies looking for apprentices. I know a few in Sydney. PM me if you are interested in some contacts.
GL2

[Biaxial Ranger]

I'm currently undertaking the conversion of installing the Geoffries system into our University. I service online and offline locks with computers and palm pilots and ecu scramblers, however, without the prior knowledge of mechanical locksmithing this would not be possible.

So, I guess my point is that though entry point technology is advancing and changing, without qualified people having a background in the original art of being a lock jocky there can be minimal advancements as everything has to be installed, serviced, repaired, troubleshot, and eventually replaced.

just my .02

[raimundo]

there was a bombing in serbia a while back, the usairforce used some kind of bomb that spread carbon filaments on the wind, near powerstations, popped all their transformers just like if there were kids throwing coathanger wires with hooks on both end at em. electronic circuits are vulnerable to salt water, iron water, and probably that alcohol based graphite lock deicer that they sell in gas stations. this is a flaw, the circuits have to be completely sealed and still dissapate heat, not fry a chip.

[raimundo]

someone gave me two best cylinders the other day, they were both quite easy to pick the opening function, but I was going for the corecontrol, havent got it yet, anyway they were so full of graphite, even the outside of the cylinder was crusted with it. picked em a number of times and then flushed em out with wd40, now theyre not so easy to pick, the graphite was making the springs and pins sluggish.

[christian_ptrsn]

The dude that made this topic should be more confident he called himself a hoe three times. Quote: (IMHO) I'm glad I've always been good with technology I want to be able to pick electric locks when they get (or get made) more popular.