Bumping As A Locksmith

[freakparade3]

I now have bump keys. So far all I have to show for them is a black and blue thumb, and no locks opened.

[zeke79]

I now have bump keys. So far all I have to show for them is a black and blue thumb, and no locks opened.

Are you keys cut correctly?

[Raccoon]

I now have bump keys. So far all I have to show for them is a black and blue thumb, and no locks opened.

are you a locksmith?

[freakparade3]

I now have bump keys. So far all I have to show for them is a black and blue thumb, and no locks opened.

Are you keys cut correctly?

I made some keys myself and I also ordered some from Bumpkeys.us. They are good keys I guess just need more practice and I think a better hammer. To answer Raccoons question, no, I am not yet a locksmith, but I will be, I am learning.

[ldnlksmth]

Yes, Abloy is as close to bump proof as it gets (you should read up on it, it pays to be able to discuss why your product is better than your competitions, especially if you're trying to sway a customer).

In place of bumping, I prefer the pick gun when manual picking fails, or if any of the 5 major conditions exist, or if I'm doing a bailiff's call (access and lockout for property reclamation) and especially if all of those conditions exist.

I just thought of something: Has anyone else seen the phone/cable company working on a circuit box in the rain? They carry these easy-up tents that are completely enclosed so the circuits don't get damaged. I wonder if such a thing could be practically deployed in the locksmith community so that we can work on doors without letting all the heat out in the winter, the rain in in the bad weather and keep nosey customers at bay. Maybe that's another thread topic.

[Biaxial Ranger]

I think Bumping is good only as a last resort before getting out the old circular pick, as it typically causes evident physical defections.

I like the time tested hand pickset myself.


But, a good point was raised above...it is the responsibility of the carreer locksmith to make note of his/her customers problematic security areas if noticed, such as easy access/unguarded entry points, as well as inferior locksets, etc. And to offer the means of enhancement of security.

Bumping can be a very good demonstration of the lack of skill needed to break into stuff and could be a convincing sales approach.

[ldnlksmth]

It could either be very good sales technique or it could put you in the light if that customer's house gets broken into.

[whiteknight38]

Bumping has been around for longer than many of you realize.
I first heard about it at the ALOA convention in New Orleans in 1996, at a talk on Forensic Locksmithing by Hans Mehlshede, of Copenhagen, who left us with handouts including a photograph of bumping trace forensics, and it might also have been mentioned by Rick Ohmit, from Obama IL, in his talk on Professional Bypass.
I still have Rick’s handout in my files, but the handout has selectively thinned, and I can’t remember for sure if it was he that demoed bumping to the class, or Hans, but one or the other of these guys had a Yale padlock and bump key which we were allowed to experiment with.
I wasn’t impressed.
Frankly, I thought that just because THAT lock works with a bump key, it didn’t mean that bumping was going to be super effective generally speaking.
It’s easy to find locks that are especially susceptible to one attack, or another, and just because one particular lock I own can open by just inserting a rake pick, without a tension tool, that doesn’t mean I go around advancing the theory that locks can be picked with only a rake.
Anyway, I dutifully experimented with 999 keys when I got home, and gave up on bumping when I didn't have much luck.
I sort of thought then, that bumping at any rate, probably isn’t something I’d likely be doing in front of customers, especially as I find hand picking and pick gunning so efficient. (90 to 95 in the five to ten minute window I usually allow myself.)
I’m sort of changing my mind about bumping, nowadays, especially as I’m starting to see EU profile cylinders showing up in my part of North America. (So far all those I’ve run into have SC keyways.) I realize that I have to get up to speed on these things, because it’s tough to pick upside down keyways in the field.
I’m currently searching the posts for info on the Multi-pick, and etc, for the day down the road, and I’m also looking into the bumping issue again.
So, yes, I might try bumping in a professional context, on a EU cylinder, or a High Security cylinder, assuming I manage to acumulate enough blanks to cover the likely eventuallities. I'd give it a couple of minutes anyway.
For what it’s worth, I’ll also use mica as a loid, as a last resort, but I admit that I don’t like doing it in front of customers. (Even though it could potentially lead to a sales upgrade, and a deadbolt install.) Sometimes, especially late at night, or I’m late for my next call, all I want to do is collect my fee and get out of there.
I have heard of some locksmiths, who refuse to perform ANY bypass in front of customers, citing “ethics of the profession which preclude exposing private individuals to information which could compromise public security…” but I feel funny doing it.
Feel free, however, if you agree with the sentiment.
But as I’ve said in another post, customers ARE funny.
If you’re too quick, they feel cheated, and overcharged. Too slow, and they feel like they should have called somebody else, and next time will.
The industry standard seems to be two to five minutes of picking before the excuses, (and the drill) comes out of the bag.

[ldnlksmth]

I've only had one or two lockouts that have taken more than 2-5 minutes. One was a lock that was so badly corroded inside that when I finally drilled it out, the dust was so thick I had to put a mask on. The second one was about -35 in February, dark and I was in a windy spot, making my hands hurt just standing there. Again, drilled it out. I agree with the 5 minute rule. I usually give myself 3 minutes with manual picks, 2 minutes with the gun and then get the drill out (it comes to the door with me, set up to go if needed).

I've never concidered bumping before, it's just never crossed my mind.

[Biaxial Ranger]

It could either be very good sales technique or it could put you in the light if that customer's house gets broken into.

If your concerned about that then you shouldn't be a locksmith.

The knowledge that a true professional will possess will usually do more to eliminate doubt than raise it....

[Eyes_Only]

A pick gun or electropick works on the same principle as a bump key so why would a professional want to carry around a big key ring of bump keys that sometimes isnt as efficient as a pick gun? But thats just my opinion, I'm just a hobbiest.

[zeke79]

Bump keys are effective in keyways the pick guns and electro picks will not fit into, also bump keys are a minimum investment for someone who can make their own compared to an EPG or pickgun.

Onto the matter of how long bumping has been around. I do not recall the exact date but they (bumpkeys) originated in Denmark decades ago.

[jimb]

Onto the matter of how long bumping has been around. I do not recall the exact date but they (bumpkeys) originated in Denmark decades ago.

This patent was post in another thread the other day by Jimmie: It shows that bumping goes back to at least 1926 as it was filed in September of that year.

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=01667223&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D1667223.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F1667223%2526RS%3DPN%2F1667223&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

[whiteknight38]

Yeah, I was originally given to understand that they originated in Europe too. I was certainly surprised to see that US patent app. from the twenties from the thread on "spring bumping" (A pity that 1926 idea never seems to have gone anywhere.)
As the man said, there's nothing new under the sun.
I was trying to convey the fact that they were being used here in North America for a lot longer than many locksmiths, and hobbyinsts of my aquaintance realize. They were unquestionably around, just way, way, way under the radar of most guys working in the field. Despite widespread usage in Europe, I don't think that more than a handful of participants in Rick Ohmit's AOAL class eleven years ago had ever heard of them before. And most of them again, myself included, probably didn't give them a thought untill fairly recently, (what? 2 - 3 years ago? Anybody know?) when thanks to the net, they ahve exploded in the public conscousness, and everybody and his dog suddenly seems to be aware of them.
I was just a little surprised to re-read my notes and recall that, according to Rick, his colleagues were using 999 keys over a decade ago, on according to my notes, upwards of 80% of their commercial calls. (or having 80% success rate - my notes aren't clear) while an entire lecture room full of North American locksmiths were oblivious of their existance. And remained oblivious, for the most part, untill only very recently.

Now one cool thing that I haven't heard anyone discuss, from that 1926 patent picture, is the wavey wire tension tool threaded through the hole in the key bow. I wonder about the utility and efficacy of that.
Any of you inventors/inovators out there been experimenting with that idea?

[jimb]

Now one cool thing that I haven't heard anyone discuss, from that 1926 patent picture, is the wavey wire tension tool threaded through the hole in the key bow. I wonder about the utility and efficacy of that.
Any of you inventors/inovators out there been experimenting with that idea?

Yea it's been discussed here before, but as I recall the springy thing used was a tension wrench. Most if not all locks can be bumped with a very light tension on the key and putting something through the hole in the key allows you to use very light tension.

I tend to just try to turn a split second after I hit the key rather than trying to use light tension.