!00 locks on the door won't stop these criminals...

[pauly003]

Are your possesions really so important that you would risk seriously injuring, or even killing someone. It's one thing to punch a guy in the head, or kick him in the sac if you catch him in your garage, but causing serious injury is not acceptable. I'm glad canada has strict firearms regulations.

[JackNco]

Are your possesions really so important that you would risk seriously injuring, or even killing someone. It's one thing to punch a guy in the head, or kick him in the sac if you catch him in your garage, but causing serious injury is not acceptable. I'm glad canada has strict firearms regulations.

what about protecting your family? we have strict fire arms licenses but if i found some one in my house that might be a threat i wouldn't be holding back

[pauly003]

So smash him in the kneecap with a baseball bat, don't shoot him in the head. Or use a taser. Just immobilize the guy till the cops get there.

[Chilli]

With the amount of armed home invasions on the rise here in the U.S., I am not willing to take the risk of hitting an intruder with a baseball bat or a taser. Usually these guys work in 2 man (or more) teams. I am armed with several assault rifles and sweet 9mm automatic. I will put a bullet in an armed intruder without compunction. In Florida the ability to use deadly force to protect a home stems from a common-law principle known as the "castle doctrine," which allows such force if people are attacked in their homes or cars.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

[Stray]

So smash him in the kneecap with a baseball bat, don't shoot him in the head. Or use a taser. Just immobilize the guy till the cops get there.

Every cop that has responded to a robbery has said the same thing If you catch someone in your house and you do something to him make sure you kill him because if not you will be spending the rest of your life paying him for a broken knee cap.

So kill him or let him be.


As for the strict gun laws. Yeah they really help... Maybe they would be better off spending all that money keeping the "haitian street gangs" out. Then it would not only reduce gun related crimes, but other crimes too like drugs and thieft.

They arrested 5 here for gangsterism, and guess what 3 of the five wern't canadian citizens... Wow how shocking is that.

Guns, lockpicks, knives and screwdrivers are tools, It's the people who use them that should be registered.

If guns didn't exist they would use something else.

I might not be politically correct, but who gives a shite I know I'm right.


Let me ask you something though, before someone invented the gun... were there no murders or suicides?

[lockedin]

I knew it was a matter of time before someone mentioned the Castle Doctrine in the wrong context. Let's get one thing straight again: Lethal Force in the form of deadly mechanical devices is never justified in the defense of property. A mechanical device indicates there is no control over the shooting (i.e. a fireman tries to get into your garage after a reported fire and gets hit).

The Castle Doctrine is a doctrine upheld in many jurisdictions that says basically if you are in your house you are held to a lower standard in terms of defense. Breaking and entering, may justify you in shooting a thief, as burglary is considered a serious felony and the homeowner does not know whether the burglar is armed or not. However, the homeowners discretion is still necessary to invoke it. (i.e. A burglar running out of your garage with your stuff cannot be shot as he no longer poses a threat, you must now call the police and you would be held liable if you did shoot him).

Your yard and driveway are not strictly covered under the castle doctrine. So getting back to the OP's topic, you cannot shoot people over your plants outside. This is because if there is someone outside on your property you can remain safely locked inside while calling the police. Thus, there is no need use deadly force. Lastly a walkway of some sort to your front door limits you. They are seen by the courts as an implied invitation. If not the erroneous shooting of itinerant salesman and girls scouts would be more common. In fact, unless you live in a gated community and have posted no notice to the contrary people have the right to solicit you for the sale of goods and services.

So there.
Conclusion: The Castle Doctrine protects you in many jurisdictions against an active breaking and entering into your house (and you are liable if you misuse it) . It does not cover lethal mechanical devices. Lastly, you cannot subject a fleeing burglar/thief to deadly force.

Mandatory disclaimer: This is not legal advice.

[illusion]

I might not be politically correct, but who gives a shite I know I'm right.

Yeah... I bet Stalin thought that he was thinking in the right way when he started the Goulags... Sodd it if anyone thought that it might be slightly inhumane, *he* was right in his own mind...

They arrested 5 here for gangsterism, and guess what 3 of the five wern't canadian citizens... Wow how shocking is that.

Oh gosh! Why don't we all pick facts that conveniently support our points of view?! I know two guys who are Canadian and one of them is gay - Ah ha!! So 50% of Canadians are gay... I'm so smart.

[Stray]

I'm getting at the Idea that most crime is caused by people who come in from other countries with no intention of being citizens. They come in because they can drive around in mercs and wear 14 pounds of gold around their necks, and no one will question what they do for a living. That example was the latest example here. It was in the news because it was the first time here that gangsterism extended to street gangs.

The case before that was a Haitian who shot and killed someone at macdonalds because the victims brother was wearing a red shirt, the color of the rival gang. Cops opened the guys car and found a .22 pistol and a sawed off .303 (Bet you can't guess if they were registered or not...).

The reason it was in the paper wasn't because he shot the person but because canada doesn't want to deport him (He isn't a citizen either) because back in haiti, they will kill him.

Our legal system gets raped, and then they make laws to avoid it happening again. The problem is the people who care about the law arn't the people who are committing the crimes. And the ones that do commit the crimes ignore the law anyways.

I'm sick of criminals having the same rights as the rest of us.

They are willing to stab you for a pair of shoes but if you kill them or injure them a judge will rule in their favor.



Its ok Illusion I understand that you like to pretend that a gun woke up bright and early one morning, and decided to walk into a school and start shooting people.

Personally I've handled many firearms in my life and none jumped out of my hands and started shooting at people. But maybe it's because I was handling a non violent one... These poor gang members are so unlucky, first they are forced to deal drugs, and then they get all the bad guns that like to frame them for crimes.

They have the bell curve mentality, Just like in school, Instead of finding the kids with the lowest marks on an exam and working with them, they take everyones mark and shift it to the right to Make the average better.

In their case they Take everyone's "Safety" and Impose a new law (that only gives a false sense of security) to bring up the class average.

Until we start sorting out the problems on a person to person basis we will always be up to our eyes in crap.


I don't go and take random stories to prove my point. I took the last two crimes that were heavily talked about in the papers.

When I hear people talking about registering/banning guns it is the same feeling all of you get when they talk about youtube and LP101 showing people how to steal.


Lastly Don't give me the crap about Stalin or hitler, because

1. Before people found out about what hitler was doing to the jews (the killing part not the registering them part), most people on this side of the pond liked him. (pre ww2 and the early years of it)

2. Stalin was worse when it came to killing his own people but since he was on our side no one cared.

So don't go around trying to talk about them as if they were the devil. They thought something and did what they thought they should do for their country.

What Do we do now adays? Go whatever way the wind is blowing. We have been reduced to a cosmo reading, american Idol watching waste of air that would rather listen to what a famous movie star does when they have a bad case of gas than do something about our state of affaires. People so afraid of what others think of them that they don't say what needs to be said.

A country whos people don't care about it will collapse.


I also am not saying immigration is bad, If there wasn't any most of us wouldn't be here. I'm just saying that there should be a better screening process, especially when it comes to supposed "Political refugees" which is used so freely now. Might come in handy to be a little less politically correct nowadays rather than get stepped on by anyone who thinks our country is the land of "Scar Face" opportunity .

[lockedin]

Stray,
This might not be my fight, but please back your assertions with at least some pseudo-facts rather than your self-created dribble. I will:
Click here to see why you're wrong

If it asks you to sign in:
e-mail:2222@mailinator.com
pw:lalala

[Stray]

I didn't say the Older immigrants were causing the problem. (Remember the Immigration isn't a bad thing statement )


The one thing In the reading That I agree with.
"Sampson finds that the children of immigrants are more crime-prone than their parents, the third generation more crime-prone still. Why that is, he admits, is ''really the $64,000 question, that's really at the forefront of the research."

Older gen Haitians don't cause the problems I'm talking about. Its their children. They come in with them, some may be second gen but most are first.

Its common sense that 30 year olds come in with nothing and don't have time to get into crime, but while they are out earning money any way they know how, their kids join gangs since there is no parental supervision.\



Not once did I mention middle aged Immigrants as a problem that has to be Fixed. Infact all the things I said were refering to teen to mid 20s. When refering to Gangs and dealing.


1. Are you in a high crime city either of you?, my "self-created dribble" as you say comes from what I see around me, and what I hear on the news in my area.

2. If a study came out that Implicated immigrants from places such as Haiti, as biggest criminal threat we have;
A) would you believe it?
B) Would It ever be published?
C) What would happen once people read it.


Even studies Have to be PC. Look what happened when they flew those planes into the buildings, Everyone got pissed (for good reason) and Hate crimes increased.

If you really believe the stuff in the study answer this:
When you see a Moslem man In traditional clothing, what are your first thoughts, Now If he was wearing a heavy jacket over them?

And How much violence have you two been subjected to? Anyone from a big city with actual crime (not including cow tipping)?


I'm Following simple logic. Gangs cause most problems Gunrelated and drug related (In big cities). Most gangs are made up of 50 cent/ scarface wannabees (White, black, hispanic, asian (I don't care), who shouldn't be trusted with a clean pair of underwear letalone be trusted in large groups.
Immigrants from countries such as Haiti Make up the most around here (and a few Arabs)

They are dangerous for 2 reasons.
1) Mob mentality.
2) After living in a country where a human life isn't worth much, how hard do you think it is for them to pull a trigger?

You Have your opinion and I have mine, Neither is wrong and neither is right, Infact Like the old saying says "Opinions are like Arseholes, everyone's got one and Everyone elses stinks"

I'm not trying to argue nor am I trying to change your ideas, all I'm doing is getting my opinion out there for all of you to get a nice whiff of.

[illusion]

Its ok Illusion I understand that you like to pretend that a gun woke up bright and early one morning, and decided to walk into a school and start shooting people.

No... Was that a trick question or something? The gun couldn't walk due to its lack of legs. If you were trying to patronize me then don't bother. My post actually criticised the way you generalised Haitian people as criminals, nothing more. You went off on rant about the criminal system and how it is biased, when nobody actually was disputing this fact

Lastly Don't give me the crap about Stalin or hitler, because

1. Before people found out about what hitler was doing to the jews (the killing part not the registering them part), most people on this side of the pond liked him. (pre ww2 and the early years of it)

That is irrelevant. My statement was sarcastic, quite blatantly so. I didn't mention Hitler, I fail to see what relevance this has to the topic in hand.

2. Stalin was worse when it came to killing his own people but since he was on our side no one cared.

Once again, this is irrelevant.

So don't go around trying to talk about them as if they were the devil. They thought something and did what they thought they should do for their country

Oh bull-sh*t! Do you really think that things are really that easy to group into right and wrong? My point was that they did what they thought was right and their decisions ended up killing many people.

As lockedin mentioned though, where are the facts that can support your argument?

The one thing In the reading That I agree with.
"Sampson finds that the children of immigrants are more crime-prone than their parents, the third generation more crime-prone still. Why that is, he admits, is ''really the $64,000 question, that's really at the forefront of the research."

Groundless fascist rhetoric that has no facts backing it.

Its common sense that 30 year olds come in with nothing and don't have time to get into crime, but while they are out earning money any way they know how, their kids join gangs since there is no parental supervision.

And *all* Haitians refuse to supervise their kids? Every last one? This sounds like another generalisation.

1. Are you in a high crime city either of you?

Yes, high enough - there are far worse places to live I'll grant.

2. If a study came out that Implicated immigrants from places such as Haiti, as biggest criminal threat we have;
A) would you believe it? ----------------------- If it was supported by facts.
B) Would It ever be published? --------------- At the risk of causing hate crime, probably not... It would likely be the same way for any small group of nationality living in a foreign country.
C) What would happen once people read it. - Depends how it is presented, but obviously people may start to feel that all Haitians are bad.

When you see a Moslem man In traditional clothing, what are your first thoughts, Now If he was wearing a heavy jacket over them?

My first thoughts are often looking at the fabric and the way the clothes are made - I do the same for most clothes though. I would trust that he was innocent to the point that it killed me - I'd rather die than live in a place where you suspect people so readily and live in fear.

And How much violence have you two been subjected to? Anyone from a big city with actual crime (not including cow tipping)?

I'm not going to answer this, but I have; I'm half French in a country where some people still have issues with the French for some reason...

[Stray]

I can get into a whole argument with you about everything else but I will just simple say what I originally said...

Maybe they would be better off spending all that money keeping the "haitian street gangs" out. Then it would not only reduce gun related crimes, but other crimes too like drugs and thieft.

My whole PiC thing Was the fact that right now if you see a 20 year old haitian driving around in a Merc with 3 of his buddies in all dressed the same (gold etc) Cops arn't allowed to pull them over because it would be profiling.

You know they arn't doctors so how do they afford it?


Now In a perfect world they get pulled over, an investigation into their back ground goes on, Its found that they deal, Canadian citz ones are thrown in jail for 15 years, and non-citz are thrown out of country.

Right now, they keep driving no one stops them, they continue to do what they want.



Cops pulled over an SUV for a routine traffic stop (Dangerous driving, due to not signalling turns), ended up being football players. They Swore at cops, and threw stuff at them. Cops arrested them for assaulting an officer. Gets in the News because they high profile and they said that cops are racist and were profiling them.

We are in a world where the race card is a totally acceptable method to get out of a crime. Think about how many times a cop has pulled over a black guy (even on cops) and the Guy says "you pulled me over because I'm black" and not because he just ripped off a 7/11



I know lots of haitians that pose no threat to me and actually do live like everyone else, working hard etc. Its the 20 year old gang bangers that are the issue.

If that wasn't clear enough for you when i first wrote it then sorry for not clarifying , but I'm sick of the arguing going on here, especially when my original post was about how Breaking a guys knee cap during a robbery will have you die poor because the guy will sue you for all you have.


So Just as a clarification: If the Gov't targeted street gang members and anyone who looks like one, rather than enforcing gun registration we would have less crime. Sure its less politically correct but It would work more than registering guns since they don't register their weapons anyways.

[Stray]

Btw We should try to go back on topic seeing as they probably will soon politely tell us that we are breaking rule 10...

[Wreckmaster]

u have to remember i live in a country where u CANT own a hand gun and being caught with a knife over 3 inches is a good enough excuse to give u a criminal record. butterfly/flick/gravity knives are jail time. shot guns cant hold more than 3 rounds. bolt action riles are limited to 3 or 5. even some air pistols are good enough for jail time.

Basicaly anything thats fun is illegal

John

Then why live there? I don't get it.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

well firstly i was born here and like it. secondly there is more to life than owning a gun, anyone that decides where to live based on fire arm laws really shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.

As for mr Franklin... Yes there is a lot to be said for the safety of owning a gun but isn't there some devastating figure about people being shot with there own gun. Plus im FAR less lightly to get gunned down in a street or in a school. its to easy go get guns there

I find your reply very interesting. I feel as if I am being flamed here. You felt bad enough later to ask somone if you had offended them.

your last 3 posts seem kinda hostile towards my comments... have i done something to offend you or am i just reading them in the wrong context?

But, I said nothing about guns, knives, or getting shot. You said all this, and further attacked me with your statement that I should not be allowed to own a firearm because I want one. Is that to imply that I can not own lockpicks, an automobile, or a house simple because I want it and might possibly miss-use it? I am sure that the number of folks who have shot themselves is a grand number. What is that number in comparison to the number of people who are firearm owners. And of that number of people who shot themselves, how many people were suicidesor other intentinal shootings? Since we are talking numbers, how many people have cut themselves with cooking or hobby knives, or wrecked their automobile? Should we ban those as well? That is a rethorical question, because the answer is no. I mearly ask it to assist in brodening your perceptions. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are mearly a tool to assist in the process. If someone want to harm someone else, they will find a way to do it. Heck you can kill someone with a rock. Should we ban those too?

I was asking why live somewhere that you apparently do not enjoy living. I say "apparently do not enjoy" because of your statement "Basicaly anything thats fun is illegal". This statement makes me believe that you enjoy these things and that you are disgruntled about not being able to do them. If this is not true, so be it. If I missunderstood your comment I appoligize. I believe I have certain rights. Since I believe I have these rights ad owning a firearm is one of them. I would not be happy living where I could not own a firearm. Perhaps you miss-read my posting or read it in the wrong context.

I grew up with firearms, and a strong understanding of protecting what is yours. I suppose that if I grew up believing that firearms were a bad thing, that I would believe that now. As I grew up around these issues, I understand what I can and can not do in the aspect of home protection. If a "bad guy" enters my home, I will protect it. Because of the litigation happy nature of my country, I will use deadly force in the protection of my home. If the "bad guy" is running away from my home, then he is no longer a threat, therefore I have no need to protect myself and family. I also believe all the posting regarding various forms of death, destruction, and maiming someone because they entered your garden (I think that is the word you folks use), was intended to be humourous in nature. As is what I thought your posting was. I responded with my opinion that I did not understand why someone would want to live in such a place. Mostly because I understand that most "bad guys obtain their firearms illegally, furthermore there are plently of legal to obtain items that can be used as weapons, get creative and use your imiganation. We could make the whole world out of Nerf, and someone would find a way to make a weapon out of it. But, I suppose this is all a matter of perspective.

I feel very strongly that the government should help to protect me, but it is not perfect. Nothing is perfect. People find ways to manipulate the system to get what they want. Just as we manuplilate locks. But someone with ill-intentions will figure out a way to get what they want, and hope they do not get caught. Obviously the fear of getting caught is not good enough to pervent crime, as "bad guys" do bad things all the time. And since I can not rely on the govenment to leave an officer outside my door 24/7 to assure I do not become the victim of a crime, I must take active roll in my protection. This starts with living in the best place you can afford. If you live in a decient place you improve matters. Next, get to know the folks living near to you, if you watch out for them they will watch out for you. Next, do not let people you do not trust have information about you. If the thugs up the street know you have a big screen TV, then then you might become a victim, if they do not know, they can't pick you out. Next, install good locks, motion lights, and perhaps bars on your windows, or a monitored alarm system. There may be more that I can not think of now, but if you and more folks around you have the attitude that you will defend yourself, and the people around you know it, you are much less likley to be victimized. I could think of a few places in town that if I was a "bad guy" I would try to victimize. Places with older homes with easily bypassed locks, places that folks have some money, and spend it, places where the folks have a very passive attitude. The folks in these neighborhoods are so self centered that they do not look out for each other. "Bad guys" make a living off of preying off of others mistakes and lax attitudes. I am not a "bad guy", I make an honest living working very hard for what I have. I want to keep my stuff, and they have the right to keep theirs. The government can not make the world perfect, although they might try. Remember that really bad Tom Cruise movie about the future crime division, the name eludes me right now. This is an extreme example of the government stepping up and truly preventing crime, but it did not work very well, as a person is not guilty of a crime untill they commit the crime. How many times have you wanted to wring someone neck for their loony behavior? Heck by the time you finish this you might wanna wring mine.

Someone else mentioned something that someone who was willing to use an AK on thier neighbors should move to Iran or the like. This statement confuses me if it was directed at me, as I mentioned nothing about an AK or other firearms in my first post. I will respond to that. First, if my neighbor comes into my home and attacks me, you are correct in your assumption that I will protect myself. I will not use an AK, first, I do not have one, second, I do not believe that an assult rifle makes a good weapon for home protection. I also believe if my neighbor was unwilling to defend himself from me or others, then I do not want to live next to this person. I am not blood thursty, I do not want to have to kill someone, but if it comes down to me and mine or them, I will choose them every time. Killing is and must be a last resort.

I am not trying to start a flame war. I am trying to extinguish it. Perhaps I miss-read the postings or perhaps I have read them in the wrong context. But I feel that I have been attacked and am trying to defend myself through diplomatic meens. I feel that this is the best course of action on all matters, from global issues to the personal home, but diplomocy does not always work. This thread started with humorus intentions, IMHO, but it has taken a sharp left turn at Albuquerque and has ended up in deep left field. I do not want to change your opinons on matters such as your home defence. You protect your self as you see fit, and I will protect myself. It is the same with religon, you do your thing, and I will do mine. What is the big deal? If it comes down to judgement day, and the gods judge me to be wrong for being the blue collar, opinionated, home protecting, person that I am, so be it. Untill then, I am not hurting anyone, and I am obeying the laws of the land.

I am not offended, yet. I do not understand why folks have decided to attack me. Or why folks have assumed I was speaking of subjects that I was not. I did not mention firearm, knives, or any other weapons. I mearly asked a question, stated my misunderstnading of the subject. And made a quote that reflects my beliefs. I find it humorus that my few comments started 2 pages of nearly flame war. If I am to blame for this, I will appoligize. I am curious why some folks can take a humorus thread and turn it nasty very quickly? I would also like to know why some folks first thought of firearms is assult type weapons such as the AK-47? These are both rethorical questions as well.

I don't know what else to say. Maybe I just need to shut up.

[lockedin]

lol- this thread started with a complaint about locks' inability to prevent the thefts of plants outside, and ended with discussions of immigration and gun control.