Fast Impressioning - Can this work?

[sk337]

Well, my knowledge of impressioning is still somewhat limited, but I'm wondering if this would work. If I want to impression a key for a lock, I pull up the key bitting specs for the key, and see that it has 6 possible depths for each pin. I then proceed to make 6 keys, 111111, 222222, 333333.... 666666. I put each into the lock, and look for marks. If a pin makes a mark on the 1 & 2 key, but not on the 3 key, that means it's at height 2. If another pin makes a mark on the 1-5 keys, but not on the 6 key, it's a 5. Would this work? Or would all pins mark all keys? Would I have to do it pin-by-pin and not all at once? Thanks, and I apologize if this info was already posted somewhere else on here, I tried searching but came up empty...

[Eyes_Only]

It's a interesting thought but honestly I think this method will end up with a lot of wasted key blanks at the end of the process. You could probably use a key machine to cut only the first depth cut on the blank since most locks arn't pinned to use the most shallowest pin as far as i've seen but this might make it a little tricky to apply a smooth dull surface to the blade, something that really helps in identifying the impression marks.

In LSS, Mark Tobias mentioned that using a UV marker and black light can help bring out the impression marks on the blank. I've never tried it but if you're having trouble seeing the marks you could give it a shot.

[freakparade3]

Sometimes a pin won't leave a mark until the key has been filed in another spot. I'd say just practice impressioning and you will soon be able to make a key very quickly.

[TOWCH]

This is a good question that I've always wondered about. I tried making a set of primus sidebar decoders using a similar concept and didn't have much luck. I imagine it will tell you about 1 or maybe 2 pins depending on lucky coincidence, but that the first couple pins in the binding order will hide the others when they are bound. The MACS on automotive locks, might make this more realistic to be used on them if you used XOXO, XXOO, OOXX, and OXOX bitting patterns. I think I saw a locksmith ledger or national locksmith article on the subject a while ago. It was online if anyone knows what I'm talking about. By using the UV market trick, one set of keys should last a long time.

[linty]

from what i've seen impressioning is like picking in that the wafers have a order they want to follow. you might not get a mark on the first cut until the third and fourth are filed down already for example.

[sk337]

Well, I think I might just give it a shot, and report back on how it works. Now I just have to find a good pair of calipers, or a cheap micrometer to use.

[pelham123]

With some timely advise from these forums and a lot of practice you should be able to impression an average houselock in about 15 - 20 minutes. Hint: Daylight is the key.

[maxxed]

This method could work, it is possible that it will clearly indicate some of the pins/wafers. Then a key could be cut with the known cuts in place and the other cuts filed down using standard impresioning techniques. Results will vary from lock to lock

[Shrub]

Ok now to the obvious reason this wont be ecconomical,

Your #3 key is inserted to the lock for example,

The lock has all number 4 or above cuts in it,

Your number 3 key gets marked on every cut,

The niumber 3 key now needs to be cleaned up to remove the marks for the next impressioning thus making it into a number 2.75 cut key if you see what i mean,

Everytime you mark a key it needs the mark cleaning off afterwards ready for the next time you use it thus scrapping 6 keys (in your example) each time you impression a lock including any keys you cut to open the lock and thats only if you get it right first time,

Otherwise 2 key blanks some skill and 5-10 mins will give you the impressioned key,

If you want to make the process easier or quicker you have to start looking at decodeing the lock either once picked or in its rest state to make a working key,

Good idea thats not new and has many variants some seeming to work while others dont for the above reasons, stick to the classic impressioning and get good with that before you start trying to find other ways to do it, you will get your own little tips and tricks goign that makes it happen quicker and easier,

The logical move from your idea to a workable one is one i prefer myself and that is to use a code cutter to cut the key to the next depth when you see a mark, certainly for mortice locks this speeds up the process at least 5 fold and maybe 10-15 times quicker than simply fileing the blank away at every mark a slight amount,

[SFGOON]

I had that exact same idea a while back but have never tested it on account of I suck at at impressioning. I have seen people use hand key cutting machines to effect rapid impressioning, I see no idea why you technique would not work at least some of the time. Good on ya buddy.

[hippy5749]

Technically you would waste only one key...
After you try the #1 key, instead of cleaning it up, cut it to next depth and set aside to use as #2 key next time. Do the same with each progressive key. At the last key for max depth, you file it down slightly and the wasted key is now a bump key. Make a new #1 key and you have your set to try again.

OR

Alternatively

Use one key and cut depths progressively until end then make bump key.

That way not a total loss to try.....

Just my thought.

[digital_blue]

I like the idea behind this. Here's just a thought. I don't know if this would work or not.

What if you had your set of space and depth keys (000 through 999) and covered each of them with a thin strip of foil tape. Then start by inserting the 000 key. Unless you have a 0 cut, all positions should leave distinct marks. Then move down to 111 and continue. Every time you put in a key and notice the marks have faded significantly, take note of the depth you are at and the position(s) of the disappearance of the marks.

When all's said and done, I'd think you should have your key, and you can just peel off the foil and away you go.

I have a hunch that it could be done pretty quickly and give you the key code, from which you could cut or punch a key in moments. I don't have S&D keys just yet, but I will soon and when I do, I'll be interested to see how practical this is.

sk337: I think it's a clever idea. Good thinking.

Cheers,

db

[Shrub]

Well to ellaborate on that idea then try a black marker or soot afterall your not after marking the key so you wouldnt need to actually 'impression' the lock,

The more i think about this again (not a new idea but not an often mentioned one so yes still a pat on the back to you) the more i think it could be viable on the pure fact that your not goign for the jiggleing etc to mark the key, simply wipeing off the marker pen is more than enough,

Ive a project on right now that may, just may work better with this method if it works so i shall cut some keys and try it out,

[cjames73]

all this talk about impressioning and i cant even get hold of blanks to try it

[digital_blue]

Though you'll pay a bit much, you can get a few blanks from your local hardware store I'm sure. That's what I did the first time I wanted to try impressioning.

db