American Series 5200 Laid to Rest

[le.nutzman]

Several weeks back, I either started or was part of a thread regarding the American series 5200 padlock. I can now say that this lock can be laid to rest. Since my original involvement with said threads about this lock, i have picked probably 20+ (keep in mind, i can only get so much from my unit supply section in the military) and tonight, I have successfully hand filed a working bump key. I can now bump a majority of these locks in about 10 seconds or less. I'm glad for this accomplishment as this lock did prove to be not only challenging, but educational as well. Guess it's time to go find another new lock to challenge.

Anyways, just thought ya'll might want to know about my success and acheesement

[raimundo]

broad tensor works for me on american, good to hear that you are getting it, keep your head down, itchy and scratchy will never DEROS

[raimundo]

whats the local stuff, pin tumbler, or like in se asia a lot of abloy knockoffs? do hummers have keys or like the jeep, just an ingnition button. (in saigon, they locked the jeeps with a padlock and chain from the steering wheel.)

[dmux]

yup been there done that too, and the bumpkey will be handy when i go to iraq in may

[le.nutzman]

Most of the locks over here are paracentric abloy knock offs, very interesting to pick. They've got 6 or 7 pins up on the bottom and one control pin on the top. Most of the locks i deal with are mainly American Series 5200, Pacific 40, Federal 40 and Master. Couldn't tell you what they use inside the Hummers anymore due to the upgrades they've done. To put it nicely, once you get in, make sure you want to get out because it's a long process.

DMUX - Do you know where you're going yet? PM me and let me know!

[mercurial]

Most of the locks over here are paracentric abloy knock offs, very interesting to pick. They've got 6 or 7 pins up on the bottom and one control pin on the top.

Could you elaborate about these locks a little more please?

As far as I am aware Abloy-knockoffs must use discs, by definition, as this is what an Abloy is.

Did you mean to say 6 or 7 discs?

The fact that you describe the locks as paracentric leads me to think that they are indeed pin-tumbler locks, incorporating a control/check pin.

If it is a pin-tumbler mechanism, it is not an Abloy-knockoff.

If this is the case it would be interesting to know more about the lock and the control pin it has at the bottom (I'm more interested in the functioning of the control pin, not how to pick it.)

Whilst your description resembles some locks I am aware of, I certainly haven't come across a cheap generic knockoff of such a lock! Any more details you can provide would be appreciated.

Do any of these locks have a brand name or logo on them?

...Mark

[raimundo]

And fotos if you see any interesting ones.

[raimundo]

date, estimated rotation overseas I guess thats old school

[le.nutzman]

Ok here we go, unfortunately due to some restrictions i'm not going to be able to provide any photos, yet, bear with me i'll do my best.

After re-examining the locks, they are in fact pin tumbler locks, sorry, my fault. Some of them are stamped with "Oxrford" and I actually saw 1 or 2 that were stamped "3M".

I removed the lock cylinder, funny it just popped out of the door as soon as I removed the retaining screw.....anyway, ok long from end to end, 2 inches, at about dead center is the locking device that rotates vertically on a horizontal axis, it's just a small thumb sticking out that presses into a groved spot on that actual bolt, very similar to the ones in the competition video off Toool.nl from the last dutch open if you've seen that. Each side is about 3/4 of an inch and is loaded with 5 pins on top. The particular one i have on my desk right now is stamped Oxford, i'll go see if I can pull another one and take them back and shoot a few pics on my personal computer.

[mfschantz]

date, estimated rotation overseas I guess thats old school

If it's old school, it's not that old. They still use the term (or they did as recently as DEC 2002) for the date you PCS from Korea. In Iraq, they generally just say "redeployment date."

[Gordon Airporte]

So are there padlocks that take Euro cylinders? Given the bulk of most military padlocks this seems possible.

[mercurial]

So are there padlocks that take Euro cylinders? Given the bulk of most military padlocks this seems possible.

It would not make sense to design a padlock to take a double-sided euro cylinder (the cylinder referred to above was described as having a set of 5 pins on each side of the locking cam), and to the best of my knowledge no such padlock exists.

I think, having read the last post by the OP, that he was in some parts of his post referring to padlocks (specifically the American 5200), and also talking about other (door) locks:

I removed the lock cylinder, funny it just popped out of the door as soon as I removed the retaining screw

Are the Oxford & 3M locks you described padlocks, or cylinders for door locks? And which were the locks that contained the control pin?

...Mark

[le.nutzman]

The locks that i'm most recently talking about, the ones stamped with Oxford, 3M and Intalia, are door lock cylinders. There is also a KIK that has 7 upper tumblers and anywhere between 1 and 5 pins on the lower side, not actually sure if they're control pins now as i have examined several keys from several KIK locks. Unfortunately I'm not even close to getting my hands on one of these yet. And the key used is stamped with ALPHA in the bow.

I have noticed that the lock cylinders that I removed, the cuts in them aren't deep at all, obviously by American cut standards. I think the deepest cut I saw was 3/16 and I have been successful in both SPP and raking these cylinders in just a matter of seconds.

I took the lock cyliners that i was able to get back to my room and took some pictures, but I can't figure out how to post them here, sorry. Someone school me on posting images here and I'll try to get that done.

*SIDENOTE* DEROS is still in use, but for deployments it's referred to as RIP/TOA or left seat/right seat ride, or RDAT (redeployment date) depends on where you're deployed to and what policies they have in place.

Additionally, you'd be suprised how many military people who are into physical security and that like aren't even familiar with Bump Keys and the properties behind it. I'm preparing to give an entire class on the subject to enlighten everyone who needs to know, plus maybe it'll cut down on the number of locks we're constantly cutting because someone lost the keys.