impressioning help

[pelham123]

Once again it's back to the internet for answers. How can you tell if there is a zero cut pin in a chamber ? I had a locksmith rig up a couple of cylinders to present an impressioning challenge. After a weeks time and a dozen wasted blanks I peeked inside and found the #3 pin was a zero cut yet was still leaving a mark after a few initial swipes. I know I need to get a life but I just take this stuff too seriously. Any help?

[JackNco]

a 0, as in there was no pin in there at all just the driver, or he used a key pin as a driver?

[pelham123]

sorry for the confusion. It was a short pin that when the blank is inserted the pin is at the shear line with no filing necessary. yet it still leaves an impressioning mark when initially bumped.

[JackNco]

bumped.... why are u bumping when impressioning?

[sidpick]

You can try something called 'break probing' you need a fine, very fine thin tool that can lift all your pins, then shine a small torch (mini maglite type - not too brite) into the lock, then withdraw the tool and observing the pin drop, you can normally see the driver pins on the '0' cut pins.
More difficult on complex locks but a viable on something like a union or yale
Hope this helps!

[Shrub]

a 0, as in there was no pin in there at all just the driver, or he used a key pin as a driver?

A zero cut still has a pin although it may mean no material is removed from the key there still has to be the parts in thelock to make it work,

Im sure you know this but it read like you wasnt sure so thought i would make sure

[Mutzy]

I was taught that you can half decode the pins with a sharp broken pick. If the pin is small, you can see the bottom of the driver/top pin. That tells you that it's either a 0-3 cut. From then, you get the broken pick and try to push the pick between the bottom pin and the top pin. If you can't feel the pick catching, it's a deeper cut.

Kinda helps, but I found the normal impressioning technique works fine. It really just gives you a small headstart.

[TOWCH]

That's a really good idea.

[JackNco]

a 0, as in there was no pin in there at all just the driver, or he used a key pin as a driver?

A zero cut still has a pin although it may mean no material is removed from the key there still has to be the parts in thelock to make it work,

Im sure you know this but it read like you wasnt sure so thought i would make sure

*clears throat* im a hobby picker not a locksmith, theres bound to be a few gaps in my knowledge. cheers though shrub.

[Shrub]

I dont think anyone knows everything, you should have just said 'oh yea, sorry i missed that, of course i know that'

Seriously though its what were all here for, i still learn bits and pieces almost every day,

[JackNco]

not at all, i don't mind people knowing i have gaps in my knowledge. its a hobby after all and im relatively new to it. Only been really big in to it for about 4/5 months. But cheers for the "get out of jail free card" offer.

[pelham123]

sidpik and mutzy. I appreciate the responce but your ideas are beyond my comprehension. I'm looking dead down this keyway with a maglight and a set of head magnifiers and no way I can see the bottom of the driver in #3 position. You guys must be pros. I was thinking along those lines but I just can't see down that keyway that well. There must be a way with the marks. The initial impression bump shows me 5 distinct marks, but a few swipes of the file and your a gonner. Granted he rigged it to be extra difficult but if it was a real world situation I'd be drilling that lock out and charging for a new one. How does that german do it in 5 minutes?

[sidpick]

to get an idea of probing take a few locks apart and find the smallest differ pins you can, stick them all in one lock then you should see the driver/differ gap. Preferably just do the first pin as its much clearer to see

Iseo and yale are pretty good for this, some locks pins will not show a gap due to the keyway warding

How are you setting up your impressioning blank? might be able to help another way...