I must be Zen

[NIC]

Schlage !!! I've been praticing with a schlage cylinder. I took out all the pins then i started with one, two, three, four spool pins.My first four pins are spools, at this point i can open the lock.My fifth pin is just a plain one but because of this one I CAN'T OPEN THE LOCK !!!!

[JackNco]

try repining again from the back forward and proactive this way. see if this helps.

All the best

[mercurial]

Try taking a few steps backwards - learning to pick spools, before mastering normal pins is like learning to run before you have learned to walk.

Seeing it is the addition of the standard pin that gives you problems, start again with just the standard(plain) top pin and a bottom pin in the first chamber of the lock.

Learn how manipulating this pin-stack feels with no tension applied, now apply a little tension and learn how it feels when it binds. Become familiar with the feedback you get as you lift the pin to the shear line, set it, and the plug turns.

Given you are already able to pick a lock with several pins, this will take you very little time.

Now, keep that standard pin in the lock, and add a spool in the next chamber. Continue adding the spools until the lock is fully pinned.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

[Gordon Airporte]

You didn't say whether you can get to a false set. It's essential to be able to recognize a false set with these - the plug will shift over a couple of degrees and none of the pins will be sprung. At that point you're pretty much home free. It's only a matter of finding which stacks have spools hung up at the shear line, then setting them in the right order.

[lunchb0x]

wouldnt it be better to get someone else to rekey your locks, this wway you dont know where the spools are and what depth the pins are, otherwise it takes some of the chalange out of it

[Eyes_Only]

Did you completely repin the lock with a different combination when you reassembled it for picking and forget to apply the MACS rule? This error combined with security pins can ruin anyones day.

[NIC]

Try taking a few steps backwards - learning to pick spools, before mastering normal pins is like learning to run before you have learned to walk.

Seeing it is the addition of the standard pin that gives you problems, start again with just the standard(plain) top pin and a bottom pin in the first chamber of the lock.

Learn how manipulating this pin-stack feels with no tension applied, now apply a little tension and learn how it feels when it binds. Become familiar with the feedback you get as you lift the pin to the shear line, set it, and the plug turns.

Given you are already able to pick a lock with several pins, this will take you very little time.

Now, keep that standard pin in the lock, and add a spool in the next chamber. Continue adding the spools until the lock is fully pinned.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

Thanks for the reply !!I'm not trying to skip steps!I've been picking normal pins for a couple of months.Being able to successfully pick most of the locks around me and being able to recognize the feel of the pins, i decided to jump on to spools!! Well actually that's not true.I bought a Schlage without knowing it was loaded with spools !!!

[NIC]

Did you completely repin the lock with a different combination when you reassembled it for picking and forget to apply the MACS rule? This error combined with security pins can ruin anyones day.

No i repinned it with the same combination.But what is the MACS rule ?

[Nasydave]

Did you completely repin the lock with a different combination when you reassembled it for picking and forget to apply the MACS rule? This error combined with security pins can ruin anyones day.

No i repinned it with the same combination.But what is the MACS rule ?

Shouldn't MACS rules only apply to a lock being opened with a key?

[Nasydave]

Did you completely repin the lock with a different combination when you reassembled it for picking and forget to apply the MACS rule? This error combined with security pins can ruin anyones day.

No i repinned it with the same combination.But what is the MACS rule ?

By the way, MACS (as I've learned here in the last week) is minimum adjecent something something.. - since the pins have to ride on the key while it's being inserted, having two pins next to each other with too large of a difference would make the key angle so steep that the pins would jam against the key rather than riding up the slope to the next cut.

[mercurial]

By the way, MACS (as I've learned here in the last week) is minimum adjecent something something.. - since the pins have to ride on the key while it's being inserted, having two pins next to each other with too large of a difference would make the key angle so steep that the pins would jam against the key rather than riding up the slope to the next cut.

You have the concept of MACS correct - the principle is that having too large a difference in depth between two adjacent pins can result in difficulty inserting/removing the key, and excessive wear on the lock.

You have the acronym a little mixed up though - MACS stands for Maximum Adjacent Cut Specification.

As mentioned above, you can ignore MACS when pinning a lock that is just intended for picking practice - and this indeed can make what was a relatively simple lock far more challenging. You should avoid MACS violations when repinning a lock for use with a key.

The actual MACS for an individual lock is specified my the manufacturer, some locks allow a huge height difference between adjacent pins (meaning you can get really nasty high-low bittings).

...Mark

...Mark

[digital_blue]

Shouldn't MACS rules only apply to a lock being opened with a key?

Granted, if you're never going to use a key with the lock, there's no "rule" about how you're allowed to pin it. But... if you exceed MACS standards for a lock, it can get significantly harder to pick. A 0 cut behind a 9 cut is a real bugger to get to. If the bind order is front to back, you will almost certainly overset the 9 cut trying to reach the 0. If the bind order is the other way around, you have some hope 'cause overlifting the 9 while setting the 0 generally won't cause it to bind overset. But then there's the matter of tolerances, and with a poor lock it may bind anyway.

Either way, exceeding MACS on your practice locks can make for a tough time picking in some cases... but not in all cases.

db