High security locks and lockout calls

[Eyes_Only]

This one question has been bugging me for quite some time and I just realized that I could ask this here. For everyone here who is actually in the professional locksmithing trade, what do you do when you are called out on a lockout call and once you have arrived find out that the lock giving the customer a bad day is a high security lock such as Medeco, Mul-T-Lock or Scorpion? Do the professionals actually attempt to pick the lock or do you look for an alternative NDE method or do you usually have to refer the work somewhere else (is there anywhere else to turn to?)?

[lunchb0x]

luckely enoughf where i live there is only around 115,000 people, and working for the biggest locksmith company here, we have around 90% of the restricted systems, therefore if they need access i can cut a key at the workshop so i can get in, otherwise there is ALWAYS another way into a building, sometimes i have taken doors off or windows out, i enev know people that have undone the cladding on roofs to get in.
but if i did have to brake the lock to get in i dont destroy the cylinder, so all i have to do is replace the lock and put the old cylinder in, this way there keys still work

[Eyes_Only]

So in most cases a locksmith would just end up having to drill out the lock if there is no way to fabricate a working key for that lock I guess?

[lunchb0x]

sometimes, if the customers keys where inside i would brake the lock without damaging the cylinder, but if i do have to drill the cylinder i would put a temperary cylindr in and organize a replacment,
but drilling should be a last resort

[fsdhy]

"Alternative Entry Techniques"

I only have one competitor around here. I usually refuse to drill his locks. We have a good rapport, he does the same. We've both got good key records, so there's usually no reason for destroying expensive locks.

But when the customer has chosen to buy something out of town, like a Medeco proprietary keyway, or maybe some Schlage sidebar junk out of Ottawa or Montreal, I will happily get out the drill.

[Ermis]

If it's not my key way and i have no way to cut them a key i drill the lock off the door. There is no easy way to drill the cylinder on most high security deadbolts, mul-t-lock has anti-drill bars covering it and i don't want to break my drill bits. I drill two holes from either side of the cylinder aimed at the bolts holding the deadbolt in place, i drill out the bolts and the deadbolt falls to my feet, then i manually flick the bolt with a screw driver. I've done a medeco in about 5 minutes. mul-t-lock in 15 minutes. This is with regular cobolt drill bits and a cordless drill. Diamond covered bits would chew these up in seconds with a corded drill.
If you don't know where to mark for the bolts just get the same deadbolt out of your truck (if you have them) and look, mark your spots and drill.
This method works with any dead bolt on the market.

[Ermis]

also i didn't mention the mul-t-locks can have ball bearings in the screw holes if the person installing it chooses to slide them in. This can be a hassle but with a little time and intelligence you can get past them and take the deadbolt off the door. snip... bypass info

[linty]

Ermis: Specifics regarding destructive entry as well as high security locks are not allowed in the public forums here.

that aside, in this area here my shop as well as the others guys i know would not try to pick a high security lock. We would destroy the lock to gain entry.

It's too bad for the customer who loses an expensive lock, but the kind of training and luck involved in non-destructive entry on high security locks makes it seem not economically viable.

[Ermis]

I asked a mod in PM to remove my post if it wasn't allowed in this section.
from a business stand point it's a waste of time to pick a high security lock.
The entry from picking is never guaranteed, and it can take anywhere from 5 lucky minutes to 500 hours to pick open a medeco or mul-t-lock or any other high security lock, so because of the time it could take everybody drills and replaces the lock. it is unfortunate to lose a lock but the security provided by them is the reason of this unfortunate path.

[lockey1963]

i dispute that it takes up to 500 hours to open a multilock cylinder, many of us accomplish this in a far more respectable time.

[Ermis]

I stated it could, and i could pin a mul-t-lock nobody would ever pick. interactive key way 5 mushroom top pins serrated bottom pins with a very difficult combination, something like DACDA 31340 , just to access the 5th pin and push them up would catch the mushroom or serrated edges of another pin on the sheer line. I don't doubt that people can pick a mul-t-lock quickly if they pin it themselfs but on the job it can be alot different, environment conditions like really cold weather will freeze your hands and make your picks feel like you're holding ice cubes. believe me up here in canada you don't pick high security locks, you drill them and move on to the next job.

[Ermis]

this of course is my own personal opinion and it's open to change under local discussion if you could prove me wrong. I would love it if some body would show me that a random installed interactive cylinder is pickable with the new pins. also just to clerify The older mul-t-lock systems with the expired patent is not what i'm referring to, or even the older pin sets that where being used before key bumping became popular recently.

[linty]

i dispute that it takes up to 500 hours to open a multilock cylinder, many of us accomplish this in a far more respectable time.

The problem is, it's not fair to a customer or yourself to say "okay, maybe I'll get lucky and you'll pay the minimum of one hour labor, or maybe I'll try for 2 hours and give up and drill, and you'll pay 3 hours labor and still have to buy a new lock, or maybe i'll pick for 4 hours and get it open and you'll just pay that!"

generally people want things done fast, they are as anxious to get into their house / building as you are to get on to the next job.

perhaps there are people here who are confident that they would be able to get just about any high security lock open in field conditions (i.e. squatting in front of the door, freezing weather, dirty / worn out lock, etc.) but the vast majority of us would rather take the more consistent route.

[I Pik U]

believe me up here in canada you don't pick high security locks, you drill them and move on to the next job.

generally people want things done fast, they are as anxious to get into their house / building as you are to get on to the next job.

I agree 100%.

[srm]

How does a neophyte know whether it a high security 'non-pickable' lock?