how do I set pin 5 without oversetting 3 & 4

[Dave2000]

Ok, here's the problem. Recently, I got locked out of my house and found this site while I was searching the internet for a way back in.

When I got back in, I came back to this site and bought the SOUTHORD MPXS-20 (The American Version) pick set for fun. I also bought a Segal pin and tumbler assembly from Home Deopt.

I've taken the Segal assembly apart, removed some of the pins and gradually worked my way up to four pins. Now here's where it gets difficult for me.

I can't seem to get around pins 3 and 4 in this lock. They are both long pins and it doesn't take much effort to overset them. Unfortunately, pin 5 sets fairly high and I need to really get my tools up in there in order to set it properly. However, when I set pin 5, I overset pin 4 every time.

I'm assuming the lock is designed like this on purpose. Since I discovered this, several keys I've seen have this setting as a security measure. Also, I'm assuming that this is one of the hardest things about lock picking.

My question is this: Would a European lock set or a Falle Safe set be easier to manuver? Suprisingly, I've got access to the Falle Safe pick set but the forums suggest that I should wait and work with cheaper tools. How do you "pros" get around this problem?

-Dave

[Dave2000]

I just can't figure out how some of the people on this forum can get around the side wards or pivot on the highest ward with some of the tools I've seen on here.

[CVScam]

I had a similar problem when I started learning to lock pick. I ended up turning some of normal lockpicks into slimline picks. I just sanded 2 of the picks to .13-.15 inch thickness.

[Eyes_Only]

A Falle set can make things easier since the tang is thin and uniformly the same width from the tip of the pick to the handle unlike most picks. But I would have to agree with every other experienced picker on this site, learn to use the basic pick tools first. I just recently bought the Falle Safe clone picks from Southern Specialties and although they are excellent tools, they do require some getting used to even for someone like me who has been picking for several years now.

One tool i suggest (if you end up having to need it) is the peterson gem pick. This pick is somewhere in between the short and deep hook picks with a diamond tip at the end. This tool helped me out when I forgot to follow the MACS rule when I re-pinned my Sargent mortise lock for picking practice.

[Dave2000]

Thanks for the response CVScam. I'm glad that somebody else has the same problem as me. I just don't understand how anybody can get around a lock with some of the big bulky tools that are associated with this site.

Are there any other pitfalls that I should look out for?

Do you rake or pivot when you pick?

[Fackifiknow]

Try over setting the 3rd and 4th pins so that the bottom pin its self is caught on the shear line then get the 5th pin properly placed and then hold it in place with the pick, release all tension and make sure the 5th pin is set. Then work on the other pins.

[Dave2000]

That sounds pretty hard fackifiknow. Maybe I'll try that in a month or so.

[Fackifiknow]

That sounds pretty hard fackifiknow. Maybe I'll try that in a month or so.

really all you'd be doing is moving the 3&4 pins out of the way so you can get the 5th then let 3&4 drop back down and continue as you usually would

[jimb]

That sounds pretty hard fackifiknow. Maybe I'll try that in a month or so.

really all you'd be doing is moving the 3&4 pins out of the way so you can get the 5th then let 3&4 drop back down and continue as you usually would

You might be surprised how many locks you can open using this method. If you back the tension off ever so lightly there's a good chance you will set pins 3&4 on their way down.

[Dave2000]

Ok, Jimb and fackifiknow what tool would you suggest for a job like this? The pins are all pointed.

How did you guys start to learn this trick? Should I invest in a transparent lock?

[UWSDWF]

a clear lock isn't an investment it's a waste of money....

practise practise practise.....

[Isakill]

Trust me if I can pick an american 1105 with an HPC half ball pick you can pick that lock with your set.

all it takes is practice... which reminds me I gotta get started making picks

[Fackifiknow]

what tool would you suggest for a job like this?

Well this answer to that question is alot more obvious than you think... just lay all your picks out and look at them. Anything thats "big" like a double ball or a long jag rake would not be very useful in this situation. So that would leave you with things like a snake, half diamond and a hook. Just by looking at those you can see that the size of the pick tip would be more suitable for SPP (single pin picking) witch is what your going for in this instance.

How did you guys start to learn this trick?

By running into situations such as this and asking questions, doing a forum search or just more or less figuring it out.

Should I invest in a transparent lock?

No there are plenty of pictures of lock cutaways, videos of the inner workings of locks. The trick is not using your eyes to see whats going on because 99.999999999% of the time your not going to be able to see whats going on inside the lock. Your hands have to become your eyes and you have to be able to make a rather vivid mental image in translation to what your feeling on the inside of the lock.

[Ermis]

To get the 5th pin and push it up you will need only two picks, a short hook (the best normal pick) and a half diamond extractor pick. It's like a half diamond pick but it's sharp and stands higher, this can come under a long pin and push a short pin high enough to set it. generally you will want to set every pin first starting in the back. when all the pins are loose and falling without spring tension you know the top pins are set properly and they are not caught in the sheer line, take the half diamond extractor and slowly slide it under the pins making sure not to disturb your picked ones, come up under the 4th pin and push it upwards to set the last pin. as it sets in place the cylinder will turn and poof. give it a try.

[Java*]

its been my experience that light tension seems to get me the desired affect on unlocking such things. Ive more or less just begun picking but I figured I would just lay that out there