How Does an Interchangeable Core Feel?

[mfschantz]

If I were to drag the tip of my pick along the bottom of the inside of an IC cylinder (through the keyway of course), shouldn't I feel the holes that the IC tension tool is designed to grip?

[melvin2001]

the holes are quite small, you might be better off trying to feel them with a bent peice of paperclip or maybe just a half diamond pick. but yes you should be able to feel them somehow

[mfschantz]

This is precisely the issue I'm having. I purchased a Schlage rim cylinder lock off of eBay, no key. Upon receiving the lock, I immediately picked it twice clockwise, twice counterclockwise using a normal tension wrench and a normal hook pick. No issues at this point. I noticed that it was the figure-eight looking lock, I started thinking, "IC lock? That was too easy to pick." I picked it again, just as easy. Each time that I've picked this lock, I've picked the lock itself, not the core sleeve. I start wondering what's going on, so I run my pick down the inside bottom of the cylinder (opposite the pins) and it's smooth. I tried my half-diamond, still smooth. I've shone a light in there, no holes. I wouldn't have thought twice about what's going on, but now I can't pick the cursed thing. I can't even get it with my bogata, and I've been able to get everything with the bogata. What's going on?

[mfschantz]

Here's a pic from the auction.

It even says removable core in the auction. Maybe I just got lucky the first five times I picked it? Maybe this model doesn't have the holes in the control sleeve?

[TOWCH]

Does schlage make SFIC cores? I thought they had their own IC standard with an extra pin stack at the back of the lock which acts as the retainer.

[melvin2001]

im not convinced that is really an sfic, i almost believe its a normal cylinder with a "plug" or something for the top of the snowman (figure 8 whatever)

[n2oah]

Yes, it's the schlage version of SFIC. It does not pick the same as a normal SFIC, I believe.

[Octillion]

That's an LFIC (Large Format Interchangeable Core, as opposed to Small Format IC). They do not operate in the same manner as SFIC's, and will pick to the operation sheer line just like a normal lock (so generally are not as difficult as SFIC's can be).

The control key is a bit longer, and pushes up an extra pin in the back, but otherwise has the same biting as the change key (The control key is cut in a blank like this, notice the extra bit at the tip http://www.jmlock.com/ProductImages/sc/SC_35_056C.jpg). Picking the core out can be tricky, you have to pick the lock and hit the back pin before turning the plug too far.

[keysman]

Picking the core out can be tricky, you have to pick the lock and hit the back pin before turning the plug too far.

Just pick the lock normally .. look towards the back left hand side for a hole .. after the lock is picked push the retainer in and remove the core.. it has been a while but you may be able to push the retainer with out the lock being picked.
This only works on rim sylinders..

Schlage does make a Small format IC ( Best lock company style) the one in the picture is a Large format ,

[melvin2001]

well theres your answer, im not really familiar with LFIC locks so have at it.

[mfschantz]

Great, thanks a lot guys. That also explains the mushiness I was feeling in the back. Something that would move around, but didn't feel like a pin. This is mostly along the lines of what I figured. I'll give it a go this weekend and let you know how it works out. (My home computer got stolen, so I'm relegated to using the forums at work until I get a new one at home.)

[mfschantz]

I found the patent for the lock I'm trying to open. Here it is to show those of you who want to see exactly how/why these locks differ from the SFIC locks.

Patent LINK

[Gordon Airporte]

Wow, that patent search sure can be useful. I hope you can get it working for the next MD/VA meeting.
I was wondering if the extra length of the cylinder is what makes it a Large Format? It's about twice as long as any mortice cylinder I've ever seen, but the same diameter.

[Schuyler]

Very cool. While I've heard of LFICs and had them explained, I never really put it together until this thread. Great info.

[mfschantz]

I'm to the point where I can open the lock with no issues every time. I can't get the core out of the lock though. No amount of effort will get the IC out without picking the pins. If you pick the pins, the core rotates and the control pin won't line up with the actuating rod. It's all some headache. I'm thinking that it might be possible to pick all of the locking pins but one, then maybe get the control pin into the groove of the actuating ring, and then pick the last locking pin. Otherwise, I'm thinking of getting a Schlage control key and grinding it down to next to nothing with only the very tip of the key left. That way I know the control pin is where it's supposed to be and I can pick the rest to get the IC out. Essentially, I'm going to have to cut the key in half lengthwise and leave the tip alone. I'll have to remove much of the bow to have room for my picks. Either that or I'll make a special tension wrench that is really long and a little thick at the end to engage the control pin. I'll have to get a measurement from a control key.