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Solving Overlifing ?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Solving Overlifing ?

Postby Trip Doctor » 12 Mar 2007 19:46

I wasn't exactly sure how to name this topic, but hopefully this doesn't mislead people too much.

I'm currently practicing picking two 4-pin tumbler locks - a Titan and a Kwikset and I seem to be running into the following situation on more than just an occasion.

I lift all the pins, and non of them spring back when I check them,but the plug doesn't spin, so I figure I overlift some pins. I try releasing the tension a bit but that never gets the pins to line up on the shear line for me, they just spring back into original position. So what happens sometimes is I release the tension just a tad bit, still holding most of it, and I rake the pins a few times... and the lock opens.
I was wondering if it's possible that the vibration from the bottom pins hitting the shear line (from me raking them) is causing the top pins to fall to the shear line.
Does this seem plausible, or do you guys think I'm just not feeling the pins right, and leaving one or two completely not set (and the raking just sets them to the shear) ?


(Oh and I'm using a hook pick I made from a paper clip, along with a tension wrench from the same clip, lol. I AM planning to get a small set; I have a feeling many of you are going to advise me to do so, haha, but for now I'm not complaining about the 'hook' I made, considering it did open the two locks I tried, and the sanding I did on it made it fairly nice shape... for a paper clip.)



Thanks for any feedback.
Trip Doctor
 
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Postby jimmysmith » 12 Mar 2007 19:54

Well i have an idea for one of your problems..
you say your lifting all the pins and .. nothing is happening.. also you said you are working on 4 pin lock then named the kwickset and the titan...well theres the first problem

A kwickset dead bolt has 5 pins.. and a kwickset titan has 6 pins..

could that be the reason your not spp then open right.. ? only feeling 4 pins..when you need to hit aleast 5 ..

have you taken these locks apart to see what your actually dealing with.. ?
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Postby Trip Doctor » 12 Mar 2007 20:09

Wow fast reply, thanks man, lol.

Well, to see how many pins the lock has I shoved my hook all the way in the lock, as far as it would go. Then I lifted the pick, lifting all the pins partway as well, and I slownly pull the hook pic out, and listen to each pin that falls down as the hook gets past it. I have done this a few times, and got only four pins (which surprised me at first too because I was expecting 5) o_O.

I think the Kwikset is a doorknob lock.. so does that make a difference in the possibility of its pin numbers ? Then again, the Titan I'm almost sure is a deabolt. :/

Thanks



If I realise that I didn't even correctly find out the number of pins in the lock... I'll feel even more noobish then I already do, haha.

Oh and I really do want to take the lock apart, but I do not want to risk breaking it or not being able to properly put it back together, since I want to keep it to use for a future door lock (it's the locks that were on my house before I changed them)
Trip Doctor
 
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Postby Shrub » 13 Mar 2007 8:25

Your problem is shite tooling, get some real picks and you will feel the differance,

Its totally pointless picking locks with paperclips and especially if your trying to learn,

Do yourself a favour and get a real set or you will go around in circles forever and never quite crack it well enough to call yourself a good picker,
Shrub
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Postby mercurial » 13 Mar 2007 8:50

Trip Doctor wrote:I think the Kwikset is a doorknob lock.. so does that make a difference in the possibility of its pin numbers ? Then again, the Titan I'm almost sure is a deabolt. :/


Unless somebody has previously disassembled these locks, there is no doubt as to the number of pins they are supposed to contain - 5 in a standard Kwikset, and 6 in a Titan (and also some security pins if I recall correctly...I don't see kwiksets here in Australia).


If I realise that I didn't even correctly find out the number of pins in the lock... I'll feel even more noobish then I already do, haha.


Don't feel noobish, we all start from the beginning, and we all had to learn how to 'feel out' the insides of a lock....and then learn to feel which pin is binding, when it hits the shear-line....and so on.

Oh and I really do want to take the lock apart, but I do not want to risk breaking it or not being able to properly put it back together, since I want to keep it to use for a future door lock (it's the locks that were on my house before I changed them)


There is HEAPS of information here which will help you take these locks apart & repin them. Have a read and give it a go! It is so easy, that I'd assume you'll only have to find something to use as a plug-follower, and you're set. Take your time doing it the first time, and you'll find it is very simple.

Also, taking apart a cylinder, seeing and holding all the parts, and re-assembling it can be a very worthwhile learning experience - the information, pictures and vids here are brilliant, but there is nothing better than real-life, hands on experience.

As soon as you can disassemble and reassemble a cylinder, you'll be able to start digital_blue's pyramid learning exercise (starting with only one pin-stack, and working your way upwards). The usefulness of this learning aid cannot be underestimated.

Take your time with every step, even when picking just 1 and 2 pins, learn how binding pins, set pins etc feel. If you put in the practice, you will be opening regular kwiksets effortlessly in no time!

...Mark

PS

You are right, somebody will tell you - get a pickset!

You will not get good feedback from paperclips as they are too flexible, they can also lead to developing bad picking technique, as they respond and feel totally different to proper picks. Its too hard to give up picking once you are hooked, even if using paperclips...but do get a small set when it is possible!

You won't regret investing in a few commercially made picks. Once you have a few of them, and can use them, you are well prepared to make your own, tailored to suit your picking style and needs, if you are so inclinded.

It is an advantage to have and use some commercial picks, to get an idea of what you are aiming for when you make your own. If you decide to pursue making your own picks, you will soon find you can make better picks than you can buy anywhere, the information you need to do so is all here.

Sounds to me like you already understand that you are best off buying a small set (when you can) & don't need convincing 8)

In the meantime, welcome to the site, and happy picking! :)
mercurial
 
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Postby Trip Doctor » 13 Mar 2007 15:43

Arighty, thanks for the responces guys. :P
Trip Doctor
 
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Postby Spike666 » 13 Mar 2007 16:26

a note some titan are only keyed for 5 pins with the 6th empty how cheep is kw. and if you key a titan to a kw1 you only use 5 pins.

get a real set and practice.

you probably over set a few and let them fall allowing you to actually rake 1-2 pins mabey. look at all the info and take a few locks apart and see how they are made.it WILL help you pick better.
Spike
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