General Lock and key question

[CompFX]

I have a lockpick test board built with 9 different locks and half a dozen paddle locks on it. I also have a bucket of keys. I was trying to find the right keys for these locks just to periodically make sure they are still working. I was in the process of testing these keys and realized that more than one brand fits in the same lock.

For example, I have a Weslock deadbolt. Kwikset, national lock, Independent lock, and Weslock (and Im sure others) all fit in my Weslock deadbolt. Why then do locksmiths have so many different key blanks? I mean, why not use a KW1 key blank for all of these brand locks?

[unbreakable]

I mean, why not use a KW1 key blank for all of these brand locks?

Chances are, they do. A lot of knockoff locks will have a common SC1 or KW1 keyway, and thus the keys are interchangeable,

Plus, a lot of lockies will buy aftermarket keys.

e.g. buy a SC1 keyway ilco blank, and not a schlage brand blank. Thus, it doesn't matter what the key says, if the blank fits in the lock then its good to go.

What leads you to believe they carry many different brands??

[melvin2001]

generally speaking the only real reasons to have more then one keyblank are

1) crazy warding to make picking more difficult, for instance KW1 is pretty wide open and easy to pick. where as even a plain old Y1 (yale) keyway is more difficult (only slightly though).

2) patent protection. this one is a biggie. companies constantly come up with new keyway designs that they can patent, then no one but authorized locksmiths can make new keys for a customer. this serves several purposes. it retains business for locksmiths (you cant just go to walmart and duplicate the key) and adds a small layer of protection (if someone gets ahold of the key, they cant just take it to walmart, and locksmiths generally ask for some identification or proof of ownership for restricted keyblanks)

3) random keyways. this is the catchall catagory, whether its just old outdated keyways that aren't used anymore for one reason or another, keyways that the patents have run out for but there are still customers that use them etc etc. there are gazillions of keyways that are old and not really used anymore, but once in a great while someone needs a key made for it.

[CompFX]

I am a self taught lock picker, so my "lingo" is incorrect. I don't mean actually "Brand Name" i was meaning style... like KW1 or SC1 or Y1.

A National Lock key has a big square head (I dont know the code for this one, lest just say its code is NL1), while Kwikset has an octogon head with the code KW1. Why would a lockshop carry both these blanks? Why not just carry the KW1 and anyone who wants a NL1 copy, just use the KW1 blank?

[CompFX]

I know that a KW1 and SC1 will not fit the same lock. So that means that the lockshop would have to carry two kinds of keyblanks.

I guess I am a simplistic kind of person. Why have 3000 styles of keys when there are only 200 different styles?

[freakparade3]

I am a self taught lock picker, so my "lingo" is incorrect. I don't mean actually "Brand Name" i was meaning style... like KW1 or SC1 or Y1.

A National Lock key has a big square head (I dont know the code for this one, lest just say its code is NL1), while Kwikset has an octogon head with the code KW1. Why would a lockshop carry both these blanks? Why not just carry the KW1 and anyone who wants a NL1 copy, just use the KW1 blank?

The bow of the key is not always a guaranteed way to identify it. The lock I just bought today has a huge oval shaped bow, but it's a KW1 keyway. Most of the time you can tell fron the bow, but not always.

[melvin2001]

i think it just depends on who manufactures the keyblank, for instance, and ILCO keyblank that is KW1 will be of the octagonal style, where as some other company may have an oval head. if you get the key from the factory included with the lock, they may have some additional branding or unique characteristics to them just to make them seem different, i doubt too many locksmiths will actually carry 7 different styles of KW1 blanks, unless the difference is significant (for instance walmart carries several pretty designs with cats and flowers and crap printed directly onto the keyblank.)

i guess what it comes down to is if a locksmith buys 17 different blanks all of the same keyway, just because the shape of the bow is different then they are an idiot. i assume most of the different styles you have either came from different locksmiths or are factory direct.

[CompFX]

So as long as a key fits in the keyway it could be cut reguardless?

Seems like a lot of wasted space and money to have other brands of keys hangen round if they several different brands of the same style key are interchangeable.

Personally if i had a lock shop I would stock only 1 brand of KW1 blanks and any key that came in that fit in that KW1 keyway would be cut using that 1 brand of KW1 key reguardless of the shape of the head of the key. Of course some of the people might look at me funny when they hand me a square key and I hand them back a round one, but, as long as it unlocks the lock, does it really matter?

So how many different keyway styles are there? I wouldn't imagine very many as it seems to be a lot of interchangeables. I know KW1, SC1, SC9, Y1, are not interchangeable, so theres at least 4.

Or here, If I wanted to have a master set of "bump" keys, how many keys would have to be on that keyring?

Matter of fact, I might just do that. There is a hardware store that is going out of business and everything is 75 or 80% off (if they have not closed for good yet, its been awhile since I seen their ad in the paper). If I remember right, they use to copy keys for people. - Ill have to check into that.

Anyways, thanks for the info thus far. I was just a bit surprised with 5 different keys fit into the same key hole.

[jimb]

Or here, If I wanted to have a master set of "bump" keys, how many keys would have to be on that keyring?

You can make 2 keys that will open about 90% of US locks, KW1 and SC1. These 2 keys will work well in most locks with these keyways and not so well in others. Even though the keyway is the same the spacing on the cuts can vary.

[UWSDWF]

Or here, If I wanted to have a master set of "bump" keys, how many keys would have to be on that keyring?

what the funk would you need a master set of bumpkeys for?

[CompFX]

what the funk would you need a master set of bumpkeys for?

I wouldn't. That is why I don't currently own a set. But I figure that if keys are a dime a dozen, machine cut, it could turn out handy to have around. They would probably just sit in my Pick box along with everything else I don't use.

But my quest is not bump keys. That was just an after thought.

I was just wondering why lockshops have so many keys that have the same side ward cut and if there was really a difference between them.

[RodVT]

I am sure that customers prefer to have duplicates that have the same bows. I'd go crazy trying to keep track of the keys on my ring if they were all the same, wouldn't you?

From a practical point of view it shouldn't matter, but for the small amount of investment in blanks, you will make your customers happier, and that is what keeps them coming back!

[melvin2001]

you will make your customers happier, and that is what keeps them coming back!

http://images.despair.com/products/demo ... apathy.jpg

[CompFX]

I'd go crazy trying to keep track of the keys on my ring if they were all the same, wouldn't you?

Yea, but I take a file and file little marks in the sides of the heads to tell them apart. But something that trivial does not matter to me. However I am sure it matters to others.

Thanks to everyone for the info. I still have other questions, but I am going to try reading some more.

CompFX

[hesevil]

Comp, my set is 15 keys and covers the vast majority of locks I would ever come across in the US. Mine are all stamped with the type of lock they fit to help me differentiate if need be.

As far as people getting keys cut with different heads than the original, I can't imagine that many people would care, let alone profess dissatisfaction. I get keys cut all the time that are different; though, I guess no-one ever referred to the Wal-Mart guy as a 'professional locksmith'