Interesting pins.

[Jow]

I found a couple of old 'Poole' locks last weekend. The first i tried to pick raked open as i inserted the pick, the fastest I've raked so far, and it continued to bust open even at the hint of a pick being near it! The other was gummed up and i couldn't open it even after a hour or so of trying.

So i shimmed it so i could clean the lock and get it working a little better. When i opened it it was super dirty but i noticed amongst the dirt some strange bottom pins. They had this weird teeth around their tops on 4 of the 5 pins.

This is a picture

Are these some sort of security feature? I assume thats what they are as there is one plain pin which suggests its not a by product of their machining process.

Also worth noting is the small 'nipples' that are on the spring side of the top pins. Another feature i have not seen.

If any one could tell me a little about 'poole' locks that would also be great!

I also have been coming across another type of pin in many of the Lockwood c4 cylinders i have. They are tapered at the top of the bottom pins. Again is this some kind of security feature? it is not on all pins tending to only be on the longer cut pins.

See bottom left of this pic

Perhaps this is a wear limiting feature but even in a cylinder where there are only 2 pins one of these pins makes the lock very dificult to pick compared to normal pins......

[Raccoon]

The nipple at the spring end of the top pins, I believe, are to keep the spring from twisting sideways when compressed.

I'm afraid I can't identify or even speculate on the teeth you're finding on the tops of the bottom pins, but it looks like 4 of the pins have these teeth, and not just 2.

Small tapers are normally found on pins to limit wear. A small taper on the bottom pin will compensate for the curvature of the plug where a flat topped pin would scrape the shell wall. A small taper on the top pin will allow the pin to back-off if the key is worn and doesn't push it high enough.

However, this lockwood bottom pin has a very significant taper, and I can only speculate on why it's causing you difficulty to pick.

Since it's on a long bottom pin, it's a pin that you'll frequently bump into during the course of picking the lock. Assuming you've successfully set this pin properly, the taper will make it difficult to test whether the pin is still properly set. Normally, you can press against a set pin and it wont budge, but this pin will continue to move a short distance and feel springy. You may think the pin isn't quite set, and continue to lift it, causing the plug to return to the neutral position and thus making you lose your work (all the set pins drop back down). This will also confuse you, making you believe this pin stack has a spool top pin, and waste a lot of your time.

Thinking about this, I wish I could buy some of these heavily tapered pins.

[Jow]

but it looks like 4 of the pins have these teeth, and not just 2.

Yeah thats what i meant.... I was referring to two pins in regards to the super tapered lockwood pins. When i set up a cylinder with only 2 sets of pins in it (one of which is tapered) i have quite a bit of difficulty opening it compared to standard pins.

[Jow]

Oh and i think you are on the right track in regards to why these tapered pins are being such a pain to pick. I guess they act like a mushroom without a false set. so you think they are false set when they in fact are not.

[Shrub]

Nipples and tapers arent new of course but ive never seen a pin chewed up like those from factory,

Are the marks perfectly uniform?

I ask this to see if its a poor machineing/cutting off process or if they have infact been spefically made like that,

If theyve been made like that on purpose i have no idea of the use unless its so they can sell more replacement keys when the old ones wear out,

Can your camera get some good pics of those pins? as in from the end etc so we can see the pins properly?

[zeke79]

If there are no construction holes in the plug, you can spin those top pins around to put the nipple down and have a feature that will make bumping more difficult.

[Jow]

Can your camera get some good pics of those pins? as in from the end etc so we can see the pins properly?

Here is a closer shot, as you can see the pins are very old and banged up (see wear on far left pin ) but although worn, it appears as if the marks are uniform so i'd assume that they are factory marks.....

[unbreakable]

How are pins made?
If they are lathed, then maybe thos are from some weird sort of clamping device,

thats all I can think of, unless there is some marking on the plug that corrosponds to these pins, that would cause them to catch..

Could you take a look inside the lock and cylinder and see if there's any strange marks that look like they might corrospond to these marks?

Puzzling,

[unbreakable]

Sorry for the double post, but I just thought of one more thing when looking at the pictures. Could these be marks left from a failed attempt to taper the pins using some sort of cutting device? If thats all that it was, the key would work (as the pins would be the right height), but the lock might work a little roughly... to say the least

[Shrub]

They are strange and i cant think of any advantage but lots of disadvantages,


Have you been bumping the lock a lot? i say this because those top pins are quite deformed from being hammered,

Was the lock they came from hacksawed up? i say this because those marks look like teeth marks from where a saw has spun the pins in the holes and not cut through them,

Are the pins in the order they were in the lock that they are on the picture? i ask this beacuse if so i would expect all the pins to be marked if done after the lock was made, if they have been mixed up it could mean that the first ones or the last ones were the ones marked whereby the 'marker' realised the pins were being damaged and they stopped or the process was achieved spareing the last pins,

So my two suggestions are (other than factory marks which i dont understand),

1) The lock was cut and the pins got marked by the tool used spinning the pins in the chambers,

2) There are burrs on the inside of the holes in the bible, you have been bumping the lock and the repeated hard in and out of the key has been marking the pins on the burrs, slideing the key in and out or even picks could also achive this i would think but at a slower rate,

Other than that im clueless and assume it must be a poor manufactureing process but that said how would you explain 2 good pins

[Jow]

I haven't been bumping the lock at all. I reciently got the lock from a factory that was in the process of being torn down (with the demolition companies permission of course) and all i have done to them is remove them from the door they were in and dismantle and clean.

The order they were in the lock is pin 1 is on the right the others run in order right to left.

I think that the burs on the pins are to well spaced to be from rubbing in the bible and they are ever so slightly flared which suggests the were punched or impressioned in rather than ground in.....

Again the lock was 'poole' brand.... dunno where that is from or how old it is.

[Shrub]

Then its a mystery to me other than simply a very poorly made lock, poor attempt at security pins i havent heard of or an effective attempt at security pins ive not heard of,

That said you/we have no way of knowing if that lock was repinned by a gorrilla who used any old pins he had laying around and they may not actually even be lock pins (unlikely though),

[Jow]

I have a second 'poole' lock that i gave to a friend.... I'll get him to dismantle it and see if it also has these pins......

[Gordon Airporte]

If the cuts are intentional, maybe the idea is to make it harder for a pin to come back down if it's overset? That's kind of a stretch. Like Shrub said, few advantages and lots of disadvantages.
Something like that would make sense on a Medeco rotating pin, though - if anyone can figure out how it was done.

[Gordon Airporte]

If the cuts are intentional, maybe the idea is to make it harder for a pin to come back down if it's overset? That's kind of a stretch. Like Shrub said, few advantages and lots of disadvantages.
Something like that might make sense on a Medeco rotating pin, though - if anyone can figure out how it was done.