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Master Key Duplication

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Postby zeke79 » 7 Mar 2007 22:06

Yup, it is almost as easy to not take the lock apart if you have an abundance of blanks.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Postby Mutzy » 14 Mar 2007 6:34

which is why there's so many restricted keys and profiles available. Available only to locksmiths who have a contractual agreement to provide systems on that profile.
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Postby WOT » 14 Mar 2007 23:32

unjust wrote:from a security standpoint: loosing a cylinder is no more a threat than loosing a change key, however, would certainly arouse more suspicion. you're not *necessarily* know what pins are master and sub from disecting a lock, and coudl end up with a submaster instead of a gm, and depending on the # of levels of master, and # of pinnings could still have a ~20-100 keys to try out.


Depends on the system. Certain designs employs a separate shear line for the "control key" which can be obtained from just one lock. The access privilege of the control key varies by the way the system is designed.

It could actually be greater than that of the top master key. Why? A system could be designed stupidly enough to be put under different TMKs and each TMK be called a "separate system" but be allocated the same "control key".

Unlike computer security key, the bitting on a physical lock can't be encrypted. It is quite possible to design a system so stupidly such that the padlock meant to keep the trash can lid chained in place to be single keyed and only cross keyed with other trash can lid padlocks, but share the same control key as EVERY SINGLE lock connected to the same system owner.
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Postby arris » 15 Mar 2007 15:46

yes as mutzy says, most master key systems are on restricted registered keys, so that ya cant just pop down local DIY place an get a copy cut,

most need a offial order, or a certain person with ID to get duplicate keys,
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Postby WOT » 16 Mar 2007 2:38

arris wrote:yes as mutzy says, most master key systems are on restricted registered keys, so that ya cant just pop down local DIY place an get a copy cut,

most need a offial order, or a certain person with ID to get duplicate keys,


Mutzy is in Australia, you are in England. It's quite different in the US.

Master keyed or not, system uses standard, harder to obtain, practically restricted, civilly restricted or legally restricted.

Standard:
Common Schlage (SC1, SC4) and Kwikset (KW1) are usually single key, but supports master keying.

Harder:
Manufacturer wants to say restricted and won't sell blanks to you unless you have the proper credentials, but they're common enough and there is no current patentable feature, so generic blanks are readily available.

Practically restricted:
Some manufacturers have reserved keyways made in relative small quantity and assigned to specific locksmiths, large companies and institutions. Generic version is typically not available, because the market potential isn't large enough for them to bother making, however they have the every right to make them and it is not against the law to duplicate them using a CNC or an easy-entrie type blank fabrication machine.

Civilly restricted:
Blanks are protected by United States Utility patent and commercial infringement of which may lead to civil actions against the locksmith from the patent holder. Currently, these are Medeco^3, Schlage Everest Primus and such.

Legally restricted:
Keys protected against duplication by federal, state or local

Federal: US Postal Service and some military keys.

State: California, Arizona and a few other states prohibits the duplication of keys suitable for buildings belonging to the state or being used by the state at the time. A locksmith in NV state maybe able to legally an original belonging to the state of CA, but the burden of responsibility is on the owner of duplicate once he returns to CA as the possession of the duplicate is illegal.

Local: Some area such as Los Angeles county ordinance prohibits the duplication of anything that says "don't copy". This is simply the matter of going outside the county boundary to get it copied.

Regardless, many locksmiths will say :roll: :? "blah blah blah blah blah, it says duplication prohibited, it belongs to the university in town, blah blah blah blah"
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