Question about pins

[mcp]

I was playing around with a master lock the other day and noticed that I could see the two pins in the first stack. I thought that was interesting so I used a paperclip to see if I could separate the pin stacks all the way through and, sure enough, it was really simple.

Now, I understand that this is a fairly cheap lock and I wouldn't expect to be able to see both pins, let alone separate all of the stacks, on most locks but would this even be worthwhile? The first thing I noticed was that it gave me a clear 'picture' so to speak of the bottom pins and their relationship to each other. This, as well as a few other thoughts, led me to my questions.

First: Would this be useful at all in reproducing a key? To be honest I haven't done much research in the way of impressioning, but in my head at least, it makes sense that if you applied your newfound knowledge of the pins relationship to each other to your knowledge of those specific locks and their keys you could get a new copy within just a few tries if not the first. Are there other uses of this that I'm just not leaping to?

Second: I now have all of the top pins lined up evenly. I didn't put a ton of effort into it, as I had to go to class at the time, but it wasn't simply a matter of turning the cylinder and 'pop' the lock is open. Obviously the pins still had to be lifted to the shear line. It seems it wouldn't be much of a stretch to find something suitably sturdy and small enough to do just that though. Is this even realistic or am I shooting in the dark here?

That's it really. Most of this came around when I was still stuck on this lock because of the security pins and I was just trying to find any way to get the stupid thing open. Thankfully I've now popped the thing a dozen times or so (still working on the feel of it) but the curiosity is still there.

Sorry if this is a bit long!

-Matt-

[lunchb0x]

from what i understand is your saying that you can see the bottom pin and the top pin on top of it, this is because the first pin is small, so between say a 0 and a 4 pin, with larger pins the top pin would sit to high to see it.
If all the pins where small enough so they could be seen from the key way and you where able to lift the pins in front of them so you could see how big it was then you could cut a key from looking down the key way, you can also buy a tool for doing this, it is like what the doctor uses to look in your ear but with a pick on the end to lift the pins. but if the pin stack has been balanced proplery you wont always be able to lift the pins high enough to look behind them

[Shrub]

This isnt a normal occurance,

If it was a master keyed lock i would expect to maybe see one or two and of course you do see normal locks with a pin here or there but a lock with all the chambers showing both pins isnt a normal thing so dont go too far into inventing a tool for this,

Also yes you can make a working key from this, measure each pin or judge it off a space and depth chart for that lock and you will be able to cut the key to code to open it,

[mcp]

I must say, while I'm grateful for the responses, I didn't expect to have what I posted repeated back to me. (I didn't know about the tool though...that is interesting and makes sense)

I do understand what I'm seeing, and why, and that it's not normal. And (I guess a picture would have helped a bit) to be clear, I can't see both pins all the way down, but after getting past the first pin (inserting the paperclip between them) it wasn't too difficult to get past the second by lifting the paperclip and/or picking a bit.

I guess the simple answer would is that, yes, that's about all there is to it and I'm not really missing anything (unless I am...in which case, clue me in!). I was just curious if there were any other implications of this that I didn't catch right away.

-Matt

p.s. I'm not meaning to sound like a jerk or anything...I'm sure you guys get tons of posts from people/kids that don't really understand what they are saying or implying and there is really no reason for you to think I'm not just another one of those guys as I don't post on here very often. Just thought I would clear things up that I'm not, in fact, an idiot. Thanks again for the responses though!

[Shrub]

Im sorry you feel that way, i really did think i had answered your question fully.

Maybe it just wasnt asked right

[2octops]

Congratulations MCP, you've just discovered that you have a lock that most, if not all cut on the key will be somewhat shallow.


You're not missing anything, you're just paying attention and learning a little as you go. It's always fascinating when you run across a discovery like that on your own.

You can use that info to sight read a lock to cut a key. Just think about it, file out a key real fast instead of trying to push all of those top pins up into the bible.