Military Locks

[n2oah]

I'd take one. (Trust me, I pay well!)

[devildog]

That definately looks like the lock that was used on the armories I saw while I was in the Marine Corps, and it reminds me of another security measure they usually take that I don't believe has been mentioned. Every time the padlock is replaced after it's been opened, you have to attach a little serialized metal seal that can't be taken off after it's attached without breaking it; it's a lot like the ones I've seen on the padlocks on electricity meters outside people's houses that the electric companies use. Of course, the idea is that EVEN if the person who has the key, or a copy of the key (authorized or not) or even if they can pick the lock, breaks in then they will still be incapable of doing so without leaving an obvious trail (and, of course, if something is taken and only the seal is broken, they're going to go after whoever had the key last, first thing ).

[dibowkley]

I had a cow when first I went to S&G's site and saw that $1200 price tag; however, I've been digging and apparently they just have a really high list price. According to the GSA these things are only like $170.



The 833 is available in two configurations; a military version and a civvie version. The two differ ONLY in the keyway; the military is restricted and the civvie is an R-1.

I'm still not sure where to buy the 833; I'm assuming whichever distributor one normally gets S&G toys thru? Dunno, my locksmithing is still strictly amateur at the moment. Yous takes (apart) what yous can gets.

[dmux]

that is the same lock we use on our arms room here.


i am in the army and yea they use that exact same thing, that and American 5200 series on everything else

[zeke79]

Hzatork,

I have a decent selection of militaria locks I would be willing to trade for an 833 if you run across an extra one!! Trade + Cash or vise versa is easily worked out for me too!!

[foo]

There's a nice pdf about the 833C here:
http://locks.nfesc.navy.mil/pdf_files/TDS-2043-SHR.pdf

I've owned a couple of very similar locks, perhaps they were the 831B?

Mine didn't split in half for maintenance like these do. Rather, a rectangular plug slid out from the side when it was opened with the control key.

With that plug removed, the bolt that secures the shackle could be extracted, then the cylinder.

Really amazing, really beefy locks. And super neat to see them essentially fall to pieces when you turn the control key. The usefulness as a padlock is severely limited by the shroud around the shackle.

The only difference between the control key and the regular key is in the shoulder. There's some warding around the keyhole that the large shoulder on the regular key bumps into. The regular key can only turn in the "open" direction.

The control key is missing the large shoulder, so it can turn in both the "open" direction and the "disassemble" direction.

I got my locks from major surplus and survival for $50. They seem to be out of stock.

/foo

[novicelockpicker]

thertel said:
Oh yes you can occasionally find them at surplus stores. But I'll be the first to tell you that possession of them is very iffy, because of the DOD lock program. Those locks are not supposed to be discarded they are supposed to go to someplace for disposal (read distruction)

That said I love mine, paid about 50 for an unopened package with 3 cores and 2 keys for each core and a control key. I use it for a storage locker.


Thomas

Acutally the name for this disposal process is called "demilling". I suppose they grind down the lock and key and recycle the metal so that the key blank and cylinder cannot be ever retrieved by the open public. But I have a millitary Sargent & Greenleaf 831b, Could someone please explain to me how this is possible? I got my lock off eBay, I don't think the seller stole it but ...ya someone explain how this is possible...thx

[Squelchtone]

thertel said:
Oh yes you can occasionally find them at surplus stores. But I'll be the first to tell you that possession of them is very iffy, because of the DOD lock program. Those locks are not supposed to be discarded they are supposed to go to someplace for disposal (read distruction)

That said I love mine, paid about 50 for an unopened package with 3 cores and 2 keys for each core and a control key. I use it for a storage locker.


Thomas

Acutally the name for this disposal process is called "demilling". I suppose they grind down the lock and key and recycle the metal so that the key blank and cylinder cannot be ever retrieved by the open public. But I have a millitary Sargent & Greenleaf 831b, Could someone please explain to me how this is possible? I got my lock off eBay, I don't think the seller stole it but ...ya someone explain how this is possible...thx

Because your 831b is 1976 Vietnam Era and pretty much so wide spread the govt. doesn't care about it anymore so they sell on Ebay for $60. The 833 on the other hand is the fancy new one which splits in half and still uses a restricted Medeco key blank. you can get an 833 in commercial civilian version, same thing, just a regular Medeco key profile that a Medeco equipped locksmith could get his hands on. Han Fey did a nice video about this on Barry Wells' blackbag blog, here is a link

http://www.toool.nl/blackbag/?p=87

Squelchtone

TOOOL.us

Boston Chapter

[greyman]

On a related note, I can tell you what locks they use in parts of the UK defence industry:

Swipe cards/proximity cards, various brands (building/site entry)
Chubb AVA (container padlocks)
Abloy (container padlocks and lockers)
ASSA Twin (secure rooms)
Pushbutton digital (secure rooms) - not sure about the brand
Mersey lever locks (secure containers)
Chubb Manifoil combination locks (secure containers)
Ingersoll (perimeter padlocks)

but actually anything goes, really, as long as it's high security. Remember, this is just one component of overall security, there's quite a few other layers.

I have not seen Medeco used.

In Australia, I have seen the following used (inside DoD buildings)

Abloy, BiLock, Chubb, Emhart, Schlage CorKey (the last two probably are no longer used).

but my knowledge is not very current.

[lunchb0x]

in australia defence use alot of KABA,Abloy and Bi-lock, but on high securty rooms there is a chubb mirtice lcok and Ilco unican.
for there padlocks they mostly use the Bi-lock TUFF LOCK which is a round padlock, looks very good and is worth neally #300au, i use to think they where really good until one of the guys at work worked out how to break in to it with in 1min

i haent seen and CorKey being used for defence

[n2oah]

CorKey

I saw a few of those on ebay, but they went out of my price range. They are interesting locks.

[lunchb0x]

a bloke at work is replacing a corkey lock at the moment and I am trying to get the old one of him, I would like to pull it apart and play around with it abit, but over all they are over priced and out dated

[greyman]

I've only ever seen CorKeys used on office doors, not for secure rooms and not for secure containers. Some US guys may know, but I believe in the 70s or 80s, when they came out, that they were in big time use in the US even in Government buildings.

[mercurial]

I can't speak for the US, but CorKey were certainly in use inside government buildings in Perth, Western Australia.

This was a fair time ago, I remember only because of CorKeys that were to me my Dad's "work keys", when I was a kid... I also remember going into his work buildings with him and using them - they were certainly quite widespread. I was already fascinated by locks back then, so it is something I remember quite vividly.

...Mark