What am I doing wrong ? ( false setting ? )

by **Oliwerko** » 20 Mar 2007 14:58

Hello there!

I'm quite new to lockpicking, after I read the MIT guide at least 5 rimes, I decided to buy my first 22-piece southord pack and I'm happy with it.

I quickly came over a few local padlocks ( I live in Slovakia, pins down ).
No big deal, 4 pin simple locks. I managed to open them quickly for a beginner I think.

But when I bought me a classig bigger 5-pin lock that is very often used in doors in Slovakia, the problem came. After 2 days trying to move the plug, I managed to. But it only rotated about 3Â°. In these two days I learned not to use so much torque and presssure, but I am at blind point now. I can rotate that 3 degrees in no time, but then, suddenly, all pins are looking like they are set! I cannot move a single pin. What am I doing wrong ? Am I false setting one of them ? Am I repeating the single mistake every time ? ( I tried it many, many times )

What do I have to do?
Please give me an advice, I know I'm really close to opening that lock...

Thanks :wink:

by **NIC** » 20 Mar 2007 15:08

If you're picking clockwise and the plug turns 3 degrees, you have to turn the plug counter clockwise just a bit to correctly set the pin.This is easier with a tension wrench on the top of the keyway!!

hope this helps

by **Bill F** » 20 Mar 2007 15:09

Hi Oliwerko,
:roll:

it sounds like you have a lock with security pins and when the lock turns 3 degres or so and nothing else will set it probably means you have set all but the security pins Goto tutorials and look up Digital Blue Lock Picking Exercise You will find a clue there Good luck .
Its all about tension and rotation of the plug (backwards) :wink:

by **NIC** » 20 Mar 2007 15:10

And by the way.I find it's easier to do this with the lock installed,not in your hands. That's just me

by **Bill F** » 20 Mar 2007 15:14

Me too or in a vice
you get a better feed back.

by **Shrub** » 20 Mar 2007 15:25

If youve read the MIT guide i think you would like the one on my www button, its one we made here and is far better than the dated MIT version,

When you have it to the point of turning 3' you need to slacken off on the tension and then press each pin in and look/feel at the plug/tension wrench,

If you are false setting a spool pin (which does sound highly likely) you will find that the plug turns back to the centre a small amount,

When you press a pin and this happens that is the pin that is falsely set, if it happens on more than one pin they are all falsely set pins,

You then tackle them as usual,

by **Oliwerko** » 21 Mar 2007 10:51

Hey, thanks for reply boys!

I don't think it's a security-pin lock, since it's the cheapest I've found.
I think it's a very simple one. I'll try to release some tension and setting the last pins again, I hope it'll help....

by **mercurial** » 21 Mar 2007 21:14

Oliwerko wrote:Hey, thanks for reply boys!

I don't think it's a security-pin lock, since it's the cheapest I've found.
I think it's a very simple one. I'll try to release some tension and setting the last pins again, I hope it'll help....

If there is a clear point you reach when you are picking, where the plug rotates a few degrees, and then stops, it is almost a certainty that you have a false-set security pin, or more.

And even cheap chinese knockoff locks sometimes DO contain spools or other security pins - in fact many cheap clones of even the Master#3 I have seen have had spools in them.

I would suggest the lock DOES have security pins.

You say the lock a sort commonly used on doors, this means it can almost certainly be disassembled non-desstructively. Euro-cylinders are a bit more tricky compared to a rim or mortice cylinder. I am not familiar with the locks in common use in Slovakia, so I have no idea what type of cylinder it is you have - a picture would really help.

Given you can take it apart, you can find out if it has security pins, and you can also follow digital_blue's pyramid learning exercise (stickied in the pick-fu forum) using this lock. You only need to find something to use as a plug-follower, a pair of tweezers and some patience.

Even if you have already managed to pick a few 4 pin
locks, if you are a beginner, you can learn an incredible amount by following this exercise, taking your time to learn everything you can from each step. Fairly accomplished pickers have found benefit from this exercise too. Its usefulness cannot be underestimated.

...Mark

by **Oliwerko** » 22 Mar 2007 15:25

Thanks for help. I think It's not needed to photograph the lock, because this picture: http://tinypic.com/li9oh is very very close to my lock. ( the simpler right one is almost the same looking )...

I'll try to disassemble it to find out what's in. But i hope I'll be able to assemble it back again :roll:

....

Anyway, what type of security pins are most common ?

by **Bill F** » 22 Mar 2007 15:47

Hi Oliwerko,
I looked at your link to the picture and although it looks like a normal euro cylinder i dont know if it has any secuirty pins ,However i found a link to your lock maybe this will help identify it for you
www.laperche.com
I think its french
I hope it helps

by **Oliwerko** » 23 Mar 2007 7:13

So after a few other tries, I'm convinced of the security pins.
It's looking almost same as Laperche, but one major thing that makes me sad is:

In the sj's tutorial ( viewtopic.php?p=46366 ) the laperche has circlips which are not continous... My problem is, that my lock has no space there. The circlips are simply one continous piece, I hope you understand me. Is there any way to remove them ?

Anyway, here's the link to my lock:
http://www.fab.cz/catalogue/detail/203

They say "sufficient protection".... Maybe the spools ??

by **Shrub** » 23 Mar 2007 8:01

You will find that it is a clip and does have a split in it, look closely,

by **Oliwerko** » 23 Mar 2007 8:19

I have the key, so I rotated it slowly, with a needle on the circlip to feel the gap. There was no gap. It is definetly one continous piece...

by **Shrub** » 23 Mar 2007 8:22

I t cant be unless how was it put together?

It could very easily be squeezed together so your needle slipped over the gap but there must be a split or else youve got a lock that is constucted like no other lock ive seen before,

Im not calling you a lier by a long shot and if you say its a washer then its a washer but ive never heard of such a thing on a euro in my limited experiance,

Is it possable that the clip is slightly in the lock body and what you are looking at is an actual washer?

by **Oliwerko** » 23 Mar 2007 8:37

I can't see the gap. But I don't want to look like someone who never takes an advice. I'm probably making a mistake.

A quick beginner question: what's washer ?

I can see the plug through the hole between the clip an cam, but that's all...

What am I doing wrong ? ( false setting ? )

What am I doing wrong ? ( false setting ? )

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