Bump Key sellor recommendations?

[v12v12]

Okay I'm looking all over the place and seeing a very few vendors to get a decent set... I cannot find any kind of review or feedback on which vendors are selling quality key makes, does anyone have any suggestions?
I've looked at Fleabay (you know what I mean), bump-j, bumpkey.us, and that's about all I've found with any decent set...? I would love to find a place that has Stainless Steel masters, but I'll have to go to a machine shop and have it done

[freakparade3]

http://www.bumpkey.us/11-Keys-Bump-Key- ... WAodUW3gDA

[v12v12]

Thanks for the reply:

I saw them and have been talking to the admin on their forums... but 11 keys? Seems a little lacking of the major brands? This fleabay auction lists these, which I recognize just about all of them cept the Sargents

Kwikset-KW1 5 pin
Kwikset-KW10 6 pin
Schlage-SC1 5 pin
Schlage-SC4 6 pin
Schlage-SC9 6 Pin
Masterlock-M1
Masterlock-M10
Weiser-WR5
Yale-Y1
Yale-Y11
Yale-Y4 6 Pin
Weslock-WK2
Dexter-DE6
Dexter-DE8 6 Pin
Falcon-FA2
Arrow-AR1 5 Pin
Arrow-AR4 6 Pin
Corbin Russwin-RU46
Corbin Russwin-RU45
Corbin Russwin-RU4
National Cabinet Lock-NA12
Ilco-IN3
Best "A"-BE2
Sargent-S4
Segal-SE1

Thats a pretty well rounded set... I'm assuming that the quality differences are based on the machine that did the original cuts, and the blanks they were made on? Okay, silly question then... does the depth and spacing need to be that accurate to work? I mean you can get a key copied at the HomeDep0t from an old key and it usually works fine (yeah it's supposed to of course) but are tolerances for bumps that tight to warrant paying nearly 2x the price for 2x less the keys? I'm just asking to gather a better understanding of how this mastering Vs copies Vs machine used to cut affects the effectiveness of the key produced?

[Chucklz]

v12v12

From what I've seen, at least one of the websites creates the keys by trial and error, then duplicates the working key. Other sites cut by code. If I were in the market for bump keys, I would want them cut by code and not simply duplicated. But I must say I would take my code cut masters down to whatever key cut shop and make working copies to use/practice with.

I see you are a Whartonite. I am at Penn now, perhaps we can get together for a picking session/few drinks?

[freakparade3]

The depth and spacing does need to be accurate to make bump keys work. The 11 key set will open any lock bought at a hardware store in the US. That is assuming you want them for practice as a hobbiest.

[v12v12]

The depth and spacing does need to be accurate to make bump keys work. The 11 key set will open any lock bought at a hardware store in the US. That is assuming you want them for practice as a hobbiest.

Course, I've been on the forums too long to be a petty thief– Philly has enough of them as it is, I'd be forced out of the market anyhow! lol... I'm interested in doing it on the side, I've helped out friends and family, and it continues to draw my interest b/c I like working and fiddling w/my hands (engineering background) and it's the ultimate puzzle.

That and I'm going to literally destroy this AM700 that I cannot get to open no matter what I try... So if I can bump it open, maybe that'll give me some inspiration to attempt picking it again, it WILL not budge! I've snap-set a good 3 pins but the last 2 rears refuse to bind even if I try them with a hook 1st...

If I do get a set and they work, I'm heading over to the campus CNC mill shop and get them 3D scanned and machined into Stainless Steel masters... going to cost a pretty penny, yet they'll last for a long time... or maybe I'll get them TiN/C coated.

BTW- Chucklz, yeah sounds good, I'll send you a pm soon.

Thanks for the replies!

[keysman]

Thanks for the reply:

I'm assuming that the quality differences are based on the machine that did the original cuts, and the blanks they were made on? but are tolerances for bumps that tight to warrant paying nearly 2x the price for 2x less the keys? I'm just asking to gather a better understanding of how this mastering Vs copies Vs machine used to cut affects the effectiveness of the key produced?

Here is a real life example of what is going on when you " copy a key" . Cut an article out of a newspaper or magazine.. now find a cheep photocopy machine .. make a copy, then copy the copy, then copy that copy and so on until eventually you can't even tell what the orginal was . Keys as a rule are much less forgiving than a printed page.

The orginal is ALWAYS the best to work from .. If you were to print the orginal on a high quality printer then you MIGHT get a few more generations of legable copys.

The same theroy applies to copying keys .. if you copy a very good orginal then you have a good copy ( assuming the machine and operator are up to the task) Goods orginals come from a good well adjusted machine and a qualified operator.

Stainless steel keys? I don't know of any available for the other manufactures ,but Schlage makes a stainless steel " L" ( master key for the lettered keyways) getting it cut by a locksmith may prove difficult.

[Shrub]

It saddens me that you 'want to do a bit on the side' you have a lot of lockies help you all out on here and then get their business taken away by kids with bum keys,

[v12v12]

It saddens me that you 'want to do a bit on the side' you have a lot of lockies help you all out on here and then get their business taken away by kids with bum keys,

Awww you had to word it like that? I'm not predatory... who is though is the campus monopoly jerkovf lockie that I mentioned in a past thread about going in and asking for Abloy and him yapping on about how Abloy is just junk, jams, doesn't work, and HIS Mul-T-Lock garbage (okay not garbage) was a much better solution... then him yelling and belittling an employee right in front of me and some other person. The guy gets perpetual and unlimited business from students and everyone else that's clueless around here... except myself. I'm not even a shard of glass on the curb to his business. I'm doing it to lend a hand to possible people I know from work or their friends/associates. It's more to learn than to profit. I work too much to make any serious time for it anyhow. It was just a side comment...
That and in a "free market," nobody, repeat nobody "owns" any "right" to business at all. Small, med or large corp/business—you compete, you excel with excellent work, and thus succeed. Or you get lucky, have a campus surrounding you and have cornered a market you'd ordinarily be RAN OUT of by more respectable competition... this guy's a hack and he knows it, that's why he's rude and inconsiderate of potential customers and his subjugate staff. bah this is going to get me in trouble... shrub you started this

Far as making SS masters: they would come from a solid sheet of SS and be CNC'd to the exact laser 3D scan (cost forbidding...) of the keys I'm buying (hoping they are worth any bit of quality...). That is my plan, but it will probably prove more difficult than I make it out to be. Thanks for your replies folks! TGIF!

[Chucklz]

v12v12

Would the locksmith you are referring to have recently moved from Walnut to Chestnut?

If so, I have a story concerning this individual. One morning I was locking the deadbolt on my apartment door. When I was withdrawing the key I felt the sickening sensation of the key snapping off at the root of the first cut, a 9. I was able to extract the key with the tweezers on my swiss army knife, so that was a bonus. Of course, my spare keys are with a friend who would be using my apartment that weekend, and he was hours away. So, I took the pieces to this lockie, and he just clamps the two pieces in his duplicator and dupes it. Now, consider that the break was in the root of the cut-- the part that requires the most accurate depth!
He hands me back the result of his work, and I could see that the cut was well below a 9 depth (by about half a depth!). Now, the key has another 9 cut, so I gently point out that this key will probably not work, as the cut he made is clearly too deep for a 9.
At this, I got chewed out for about 5 minutes. Not because I questioned the work, but rather about how dare I know about the precious secret of depths. Good thing I didn't mention the sacred secret of spaces. Or the blessed ritual of cutting by code. He was incredibly paranoid that any customer have any actual knowledge of locks.

At this point, I came very close to asking him to cut me another key, with only the last four cuts made, and I would just make the first cut the correct way with my impressioning file. But after that treatment, I was loathe to give him any more money, for any reason.

[Shrub]

Starting as a lockie is one thing but doing another job and gogin out now and again to help people in their house is another,

That said if its this burk go ahead hes been in business too long by the sounds of it,

I wasnt meaning to have quite so muich of a go but rather suggest that if everyone did that were ouit of a job,

[Shrub]

By the way, im not sure what stainless originals are gogin to do for you,

A good quality steel blank is just as good and will do the same thing,

To make a stainless blank you wouldnt use a cnc miller its wasted on it,

YTou use a horizontal milling machine with various cutters,

The hardest part is making the cutters which isnt difficult if you have a lathe,

[v12v12]

v12v12

Would the locksmith you are referring to have recently moved from Walnut to Chestnut?

If so, I have a story concerning this individual. One morning I was locking the deadbolt on my apartment door. When I was withdrawing the key I felt the sickening sensation of the key snapping off at the root of the first cut, a 9. I was able to extract the key with the tweezers on my swiss army knife, so that was a bonus. Of course, my spare keys are with a friend who would be using my apartment that weekend, and he was hours away. So, I took the pieces to this lockie, and he just clamps the two pieces in his duplicator and dupes it. Now, consider that the break was in the root of the cut-- the part that requires the most accurate depth!
He hands me back the result of his work, and I could see that the cut was well below a 9 depth (by about half a depth!). Now, the key has another 9 cut, so I gently point out that this key will probably not work, as the cut he made is clearly too deep for a 9.
At this, I got chewed out for about 5 minutes. Not because I questioned the work, but rather about how dare I know about the precious secret of depths. Good thing I didn't mention the sacred secret of spaces. Or the blessed ritual of cutting by code. He was incredibly paranoid that any customer have any actual knowledge of locks.

At this point, I came very close to asking him to cut me another key, with only the last four cuts made, and I would just make the first cut the correct way with my impressioning file. But after that treatment, I was loathe to give him any more money, for any reason.

Aye this would be the guy... He's just very unpleasant and seemingly, purposefully combative. He just wants customers IN and def OUT like cattle. He's certainly not interested in why or how you came to acquire knowledge of the "secret" craft. That aside... I won't be patronizing him ever; forbidding an extreme emergency... which I doubt I couldn't just jimmy my way through or wait till the next day at a friend's.

Shrub, maybe I'm visualizing this incorrectly, but how would you use a lathe to cut out keys from a flat sheet of metal? I've seen adapters and what not that basically place a vice on the X-axis so the lathe's turning chuck becomes a psuedo Vert mill head... I'm not too familiar with key cutters though. If I could see one up close I would understand.
___Far as SS-Masters, eh just a thought... not very practical nor for the $$$, but hey neither is me wanting them TiN coated

Thanks for your replies!

[Shrub]

Well you could cut it on a lathe i suppose in the manner you suggest but i would suggest you use my suggestion instead as its the machine to use for this sort of thing,

It would only require a few passes of differant cutters on each side to make the form,

The easi entry is the same sort fo thing,