Unusal pick geometry

[ForFun]

Except fo the half diamond I don't think I've seen any of these picks.
http://www.hpcworld.com/Picks/p_comp1.htm
HPC Inc. only sells to locksmiths and the like.
Any comments on the use of these picks???????

[Schuyler]

search

computer generated picks have often been a topic of conversation, if I'm not mistaken. They're trying to reproduce common key profiles, they're not rakes or anything of the sort.

[UWSDWF]

and there are several companies that make them... but yeah search chief

[quicksilver]

These picks were designed for disk tumblers. That's a very important distinction to remember. What HPC did was conceptualize a number of disk tumbler configurations and find a commonality. The idea was a good one for those folks that have to deal with disks a lot. Notice that the diamond is larger than those used for a pin design.

Are they worth the money? I actually have worked with them and while I can't comment on the money end of it as I didn't pay for them; I was successful with a older Chevy Malibu once. They are employed in cabinets, older automobiles, etc.

The scrubbing technique for disk tumblers calls for a moderate amount of pressure. These are somewhat crude in structure (with some exceptions) but are built to last. The concept in industry is that they have looser tolerances than pins (& thus somewhat less security). I don't really know if they (disk tumblers) are used to the extent that they were in cars past the 1980's as that is not something I work with. But they (to a degree, of course) are less subject to dirt or debris stopping the lock. So there is a real advantage in their construction in some settings.

Could you spp disk tumblers? Of course you could. but the pick set in question is designed for a different style (scrubbing). As a generalization (which is a poor thing to do) I would say IMO that there is more tolerance in a DT lock as the picks are .030 in size. And looking at the design, the keyway is much simpler than most pin-tumbler locks. This does make them somewhat less secure. In addition the disks are subject to distortion and it's easy to ruin such a lock with abusive pick style.

There are real experts on this subject that can give you much more info than I. Some folks refer to these as wafer or even plate tumbler type locks. They are still made where excessive use, less security, and debris may make a tighter tolerance lock susceptible to malfunction. Some disk locks do exist that are of a higher quality than others; they are not all cheap file cabinet locks, etc.

[Schuyler]

These picks were designed for disk tumblers. That's a very important distinction to remember. What HPC did was conceptualize a number of disk tumbler configurations and find a commonality. The idea was a good one for those folks that have to deal with disks a lot. Notice that the diamond is larger than those used for a pin design.

Are they worth the money? I actually have worked with them and while I can't comment on the money end of it as I didn't pay for them; I was successful with a older Chevy Malibu once. They are employed in cabinets, older automobiles, etc.

The scrubbing technique for disk tumblers calls for a moderate amount of pressure. These are somewhat crude in structure (with some exceptions) but are built to last. The concept in industry is that they have looser tolerances than pins (& thus somewhat less security). I don't really know if they (disk tumblers) are used to the extent that they were in cars past the 1980's as that is not something I work with. But they (to a degree, of course) are less subject to dirt or debris stopping the lock. So there is a real advantage in their construction in some settings.

Could you spp disk tumblers? Of course you could. but the pick set in question is designed for a different style (scrubbing). As a generalization (which is a poor thing to do) I would say IMO that there is more tolerance in a DT lock as the picks are .030 in size. And looking at the design, the keyway is much simpler than most pin-tumbler locks. This does make them somewhat less secure. In addition the disks are subject to distortion and it's easy to ruin such a lock with abusive pick style.

There are real experts on this subject that can give you much more info than I. Some folks refer to these as wafer or even plate tumbler type locks. They are still made where excessive use, less security, and debris may make a tighter tolerance lock susceptible to malfunction. Some disk locks do exist that are of a higher quality than others; they are not all cheap file cabinet locks, etc.

really!

I've never seen these associated with disk locks...unless you mean wafer locks, and even then, I've never seen them specifically associated with those either. Rereading it, you must mean wafers, well, I know they're called disc locks too, but being that abloy types have their distinctive "discs" it gets a bit confusing.

Anyhow, thanks for the information.

what a gem of a post.

[raimundo]

computer generated may be a term like laser track key, more a discription meant to sell them than anything to do with a real computer, I know I could make some templates with a sharpie marker that would be just as successful and have little computer power in it. there was a thread a while back that said that the original shapes come from some israeli locksmith and hpc got the shapes from him. think about what a random bunch of keys looks like then make some squiggles that do not address the highest or lowest cuts, this is because the picks are mobile in the keyway and dont have to go to the extremes,and if a lift motion sets a hig cut, then it will remain set when a down motion gives the deep pins a chance to set. I think they are used like jiggler keys.

[Schuyler]

computer generated may be a term like laser track key, more a discription meant to sell them than anything to do with a real computer, I know I could make some templates with a sharpie marker that would be just as successful and have little computer power in it. there was a thread a while back that said that the original shapes come from some israeli locksmith and hpc got the shapes from him. think about what a random bunch of keys looks like then make some squiggles that do not address the highest or lowest cuts, this is because the picks are mobile in the keyway and dont have to go to the extremes,and if a lift motion sets a hig cut, then it will remain set when a down motion gives the deep pins a chance to set. I think they are used like jiggler keys.

Yeah, that was my impression as well. Not rakes, but profile picks.

[maintenanceguy]

HPC was selling "computer generated" picks back in the 80's when the phrase "computer generated" was a relatively new idea.

I think "computer generated" was a marketinig gimic for an era when Tron and War Games were blockbuster movies and everyone knew someone who had just upgraded from a Comadore 64 to an Apple IIe.

I bought a set around that time and found them just about useless. Now I may not have known how to use them and never tried them as profile picks.