Opensource maskerkeying project proposal - restarted

[Schuyler]

I just checked and there's a Java Runtime Environment for PalmPilots.

Awesome I LOVE coffee!!

dork.

[zeke79]

Hehehehe !

[mh]

I just checked and there's a Java Runtime Environment for PalmPilots.

However, the screen on Palm Pilots is smaller, so I somewhat doubt Shrub will get his "one screen, no menus" requirement with that

[DaveAG]

The version of Java installed on phones, palms and the like is called Java 2 Micro-Edition (J2ME) and is quite different from a user-interface point of view than standard Java.

I've written an application for a phone in the thing, and its ok to work with, just don't expect to develop an application for the PC then load it straight onto a small device and expect it to work.

Differences:

All the CPU intensive stuff in standard java is removed, including String.split() of all things
It has its own Lightweight user interface, not AWT or Swing
Many of the less used classes are stripped out, including RMI, SSL etc.

It may have changed since last year when I worked with it, but look up MIDP and CLDC JavaDoc APIs to see what you can do with the stuff.

Oh yes, and file handling is an unsupported extra, rather than part of the language.

[Raccoon]

Hey Shrub. Do you have Microsoft Excel? I can make what you described in a simple spreadsheet with cell functions. Though I'm a bit rusty, I can definitely put it together if you really want.

[Shrub]

I think i have excel but i doesnt that still use menus?

I forgot to add to my list of wants that it must be able to have user added space and depths,

I think that if that could be coupled to an update system over the net it would be good or have a download file that simply downloads the file containing all the space and depths that everyone could submit on the site where you download the program,

As i say ive got programs that do what i want but like the project at hand here so am just giving some input,

[Raccoon]

Master keying does not require knowledge of space and depth charts unless you are restricted by the angle of your cutting wheel and are unable to cut keys to their actual specification. All that is needed is an arbitrary range of cut values that are representative of depths; 0-9, 1-9, 1-0, 1-6, 0-X, etc. And the MACS value which determines how greatly your adjacent cuts may very.

Other parameters which are of interest; step-increment (default: 2), first-cut minimum (should be <= half of the maximum range, eg: 5), minimum adjacent variant (to make sure you don't get flat keys like 5-5-5-5-5), make sure that at least one cut on the change key is lower than the master key's bitting (no shaving), make sure that at least one latter cut is higher than any previous cut (to prevent keys that can be removed from the lock while turned, eg: no 9-7-5-3-1), and a few other such settings.

Finding phantom/cross-keying would be a bit of a chore, but it can be done with some effort through scripting.

[Raccoon]

And yes, Excel itself has menus, but no menus would be needed to operate the spreadsheet. Just fill in the cells with the appropriate values and click a button which initiates the script.

[zeke79]

Raccoon,

If you can do this it would be cool. I'd love to see it done as I am sure there are alot of people out there who would love to have something this simple if they do not need to track much information with the system etc.

[Shrub]

Depth info certainly is needed for masterkeying and i dont know how you would do it otherwise,

Sure you can get away with it if you have a pinning kit for that make and model lock and the software tells you to pin with which number pin but it doesnt work like that or at least here it doesnt,

There are so many differant types of locks used that you would need depth info in the system for it to be able to work it out,

I want to be able to put locks other than pin tumblers on it,

I think we need two totally differant things as in the uk we would have to input all our own info or at least have a specific database for uk locks, at least you can all use the existing ones as a base ie copy the depth measurements from pretty much any software out there but when it comes to our locks the info isnt there unless youve worked it out,

[Raccoon]

There is no master keying software on the market that includes specific measured depth and spacing information on the brand of lock you're pinning. ALL master keying software asks you to specify the arbitrary numeric range of 0-9 or 1-A or whatever that brand uses. It is not only assumed, but required, that the locksmith already knows the measured pinning, depth, and spacing information. This can be through owning a brand specific pinning kit, possessing pinning charts, or a universal pinning kit which includes chart info.

Not only would it be unnecessary for the software to include hard coded depth-space info, but it would bloat the product and offer the potential for confusing or mis-information. I would rather buy the brand pins or recommended OEM pins from a supplier who guarantees their computability with the locks I'm working on, than rely on some open-source software to tell me what generic pins I should buy. You have to consider that a professional doesn't (or shouldn't) cut corners when it comes to pinning a large complex or institute, and will be buying from a supplier who knows what to sell. "Hi, I'd like some Yale #2, #6 and #8 bottom pins, 3 bags of each".

[Gordon Airporte]

The version of Java installed on phones, palms and the like is called Java 2 Micro-Edition (J2ME) and is quite different from a user-interface point of view than standard Java.

Aw nuts, they really did cut it down it seems. I was hoping it would be an easier port than that since Java's a decent language, IMO. I'd like to help but I'm rusty in everything except Python and I think I could pick Java back up quicker than C or (gods forbid) C++.

[mh]

I would rather buy the brand pins or recommended OEM pins from a supplier who guarantees their computability with the locks I'm working on

That's the pins - but what about cutting the keys?
Seems nice to have measurement info for them handy?

[Raccoon]

I would rather buy the brand pins or recommended OEM pins from a supplier who guarantees their computability with the locks I'm working on

That's the pins - but what about cutting the keys?
Seems nice to have measurement info for them handy?

All code cutting machines have measured info built into them, or come with cards with measured info calculated on them, both converted into numeric 0-9 or 1-A type values. Example: For a card machine, you insert the card and line the dial up to Space 1, Depth 5, Space 2, Depth 2, Space 3, Depth 4... etc.

If you are using a standard duplicator, you will be using depth-spacer keys, which also come in numeric, and not measured, values. There are no (or very very VERY few) key machines on the market that cut to arbitrary measured depths that cannot do numeric depth cuts. If there is one, I want it.

[Schuyler]

svn is, in theory, up and running. I'll drop you the link.