Schlage Primus, ASSA 4800, and Patent Expiry

[DaveAG]

I've got a couple of ASSA 4800s off of Ebay a while back, and I seem to have some problems working out exactly what "family" it belongs to.

I *think* it is a copy of the Schlage Primus, rather than the ASSA Twin, as it has different heights and angles of the cuts in the finger-pins, and the sidebar has no coding whatsoever, it is the same in all of the cylinders I've opened up . They are from different sellers and different transactions, so I doubt that I've simply got the same coded sidebar.

If it is a copy of the Schlage, does anyone know if the patent protection is the same, and thus expiring this august. The key has the Widen Innovation logo on it, as do the Schlage Primus keys.

Here's a picture of the key, two top pins, two bottom pins, two finger pins, and the sidebar itself.




Also, although the UK ASSA Site referrs to it as simply the ASSA 4800, the Swedish site referrs to it as the Twin Combi 4800. Is this the same technology (but with 3 finger pins not 5 or 2) as found in the Twin Combi 5800 and 1800 models?


(and yes, this is the lock and key in my sig)

[Eyes_Only]

You might be right. Those finger pins looks very much like the ones used in a Primus cylinder and not the usual types in locks like the ASSA Twin.

[DaveAG]

I can't get a better picture with my scanner or camera, but the side-pins when seen from the point of view of the sidebar look like this.



There are two cuts in the pin, leaving a small piece of metal that must fit into the thin grooves of the sidebar.

Thus, the pins must be lifted and rotated correctly for the sidebar to be able to retract. The rotation is done by offsetting the cut on the side of the key from the spacing of the side-pins.

An example of this can be seen in the scan of the key earlier, where (from tip to bow) the spacing between the first and second sidepins is smaller than between the 3rd and 4th sidepins.

For some reason, the sidepins have thin vertical grooves all the way down. I can't see how these affect the picking or operation of this lock.

[n2oah]

Yup, that a Primus. You also notice the subtle angles that the finger pins turn due to the uneven spacing of the cuts on the key. Props for that. The Primus does the exact same thing.

[sirbigs]

We have two master key systems which use the ASSA 4800.

We have a 20 year patent on the key blank, which is exclusive to us until the patent runs out. The patent is all down to the side bar coding. The key blanks are only available from ASSA to their ASSA dealers.

Unless the cylinders you have bought have originated from the same place, I think you will probably find that the side bar codings are different.

[DaveAG]

What I think is that all of the physical sidebars are the same across the 4800s, but the side-pins are cut differently according to who's got the rights to that code.


What I'm hypothesising is:

ASSA Twin => Every lock has the same sidepins, the code is on the sidebar

ASSA 4800 ==> Every lock has the same sidebar, the code is on the sidepins

[greyman]

What I think is that all of the physical sidebars are the same across the 4800s, but the side-pins are cut differently according to who's got the rights to that code.

What I'm hypothesising is:

ASSA Twin => Every lock has the same sidepins, the code is on the sidebar

ASSA 4800 ==> Every lock has the same sidebar, the code is on the sidepins

That is a very succint way to put it, and I believe you're right. I guess Widen didn't want to make things too complicated by allowing both the sidebar and the side pins to vary in the same system.

[aussielocky]

I *think* it is a copy of the Schlage Primus,

)

How do you know that the primus is not a copy of it ...

[n2oah]

What I think is that all of the physical sidebars are the same across the 4800s, but the side-pins are cut differently according to who's got the rights to that code.

What I'm hypothesising is:

ASSA Twin => Every lock has the same sidepins, the code is on the sidebar

ASSA 4800 ==> Every lock has the same sidebar, the code is on the sidepins

That is a very succint way to put it, and I believe you're right. I guess Widen didn't want to make things too complicated by allowing both the sidebar and the side pins to vary in the same system.

He is right. Personally, I liked the Twin better because I didn't have to mess around with the sidebar pins, I just had to throw them into the lock. However, there are usually burrs in the sidebar chambers, making the sidebar pins stick.