High security locks and lockout calls

[Eyes_Only]

Or you could spend half an hour "trying" to pick or bypass it and put out a "struggle" to show the customer how secure it is and difficult it is to pick instead of just plain out drilling it.

[Jryanruch]

What's 'off' about it? We sell Medeco3 and earlier generations of Medeco to customers who trust that A: They are in control of duplicating keys and B: Their new locks are next to impossible to pick/bump/bypass (assuming their door hardware is up to snuff).

They understand that people like Shrub can probably get in, given enough time and with the right tools. But flying him out here to work his magic is less cost effective than drilling the cylinder.

Besides.. 99% of the time we drill high security locks because they fail mechanically. If they are a true HS lock, then the locksmith that supplied that lock will have a code on file for it and will be able to generate keys.

Sometimes, people move out and leave HS cylinders/locks behind and there are no keys and no records to back them up. In this occasion, some Lockies think it's okay to attempt an NDE via picking. Any of our customers would be mad that we're wasting their money with our time. If they saw .5 hour labour on "Attempted picking" on their invoice it would not go over well. It's bypass or DE.

[Jryanruch]

What's 'off' about it? We sell Medeco3 and earlier generations of Medeco to customers who trust that A: They are in control of duplicating keys and B: Their new locks are next to impossible to pick/bump/bypass (assuming their door hardware is up to snuff).

They understand that people like Shrub can probably get in, given enough time and with the right tools. But flying him out here to work his magic is less cost effective than drilling the cylinder.

Besides.. 99% of the time we drill high security locks because they fail mechanically. If they are a true HS lock, then the locksmith that supplied that lock will have a code on file for it and will be able to generate keys.

Sometimes, people move out and leave HS cylinders/locks behind and there are no keys and no records to back them up. In this occasion, some Lockies think it's okay to attempt an NDE via picking. Any of our customers would be mad that we're wasting their money with our time. If they saw .5 hour labour on "Attempted picking" on their invoice it would not go over well. It's bypass or DE.

[Schuyler]

What's 'off' about it? We sell Medeco3 and earlier generations of Medeco to customers who trust that A: They are in control of duplicating keys and B: Their new locks are next to impossible to pick/bump/bypass (assuming their door hardware is up to snuff).

They understand that people like Shrub can probably get in, given enough time and with the right tools. But flying him out here to work his magic is less cost effective than drilling the cylinder.

Besides.. 99% of the time we drill high security locks because they fail mechanically. If they are a true HS lock, then the locksmith that supplied that lock will have a code on file for it and will be able to generate keys.

Sometimes, people move out and leave HS cylinders/locks behind and there are no keys and no records to back them up. In this occasion, some Lockies think it's okay to attempt an NDE via picking. Any of our customers would be mad that we're wasting their money with our time. If they saw .5 hour labour on "Attempted picking" on their invoice it would not go over well. It's bypass or DE.

what you said is that IF a high security lock is pickable or bypassable, that it would be bad for business to go that route, because it would undermine the idea they have in their head about the quality of the lock:

Even if a high security lock is pickable/bypassable it is bad for business to reveal that to customers who have paid a premium for a lock that 'cannot be compromised.'

that is what seems off. I have absolutely no problem with people going for a drill instead of a pick when it comes to high security cylinders, I absolutely agree with every argument that's been made in regards to time, economy for the client and yourself, etc. But you set up the scenario, that IF a high security lock is bypassable, you would drill to hide that insecurity from your customer. That is an argument I do not agree with. Personally, I would hope for full disclosure on the qualities and failings of any product that will be protecting myself, my family, or my business, and left to make a more informed decisions about my security needs.

[Jryanruch]

I see... sorry about that one, I can be obtuse. I'm with you 100%. I would always attempt NDE on anything but an HS cylinder. And I wouldn't sell anything less than the HS stuff we sell and give the customer the impression that they were buying HS locks. I can see how what I wrote makes it sound like I'm advocating telling customers that their Everest cylinder is impregnable. That's my bad. Sorry.

[Schuyler]

I see... sorry about that one, I can be obtuse. I'm with you 100%. I would always attempt NDE on anything but an HS cylinder. And I wouldn't sell anything less than the HS stuff we sell and give the customer the impression that they were buying HS locks. I can see how what I wrote makes it sound like I'm advocating telling customers that their Everest cylinder is impregnable. That's my bad. Sorry.

Heh, I was super nervous to read your response I'm glad it was just a misunderstanding. I've always been impressed with the quality of character or the members of this forum who do this work professionally, and I'm sorry I entertained, even for a moment, that yours was anything less than it is. My apologies as well.

[Jryanruch]

I tell customers that the HS stuff we sell is virtually pick proof. And it is. So if they call and say they need me to pick it open, I need to support my original statement by saying, "Sorry, no can do." Even if it can be done by pick-hobby types with insane amounts of training, patience, and skill.

If it was actually as simple as just learning to pick M3, and I was just too lazy to learn how to do it -- that would be dishonest. If what I sell really is the top of the line in mechanical security -- that is honest.

[Schuyler]

Absolutely. And as everyone knows, or at least someday realizes, picking in front of your computer, or on the couch in the den, alone or with a friend, is an entirely different scenario than picking a mounted lock, with a customer over your shoulder, likely on your knees in lord-knows what sort of weather.

I've a great admiration for locksmiths.

[davou]

new locksmiths have to start sowewhere. where does one gain the lock ID knowledge?

http://www.apa-pelletier.com/anglais/indexA.html

cheers [/quote]

[Raccoon]

Returning to the idea of being called out to open a high security lock...

Don't most, if not all, high security locks have a key master? Such as the authorized locksmith who installed the lock and provided keys? Why would anyone choose to call a different locksmith when another locksmith has your key on file?

These occurrences would have to be RARE indeed. Less than 1 a year, no matter where you are. If you lose a key, and can't contact your key master, then you probably don't have authorization to enter.

[raimundo]

I think that what Racoon means is that the locksmith has the key bitting on file. that is, a number, such as is encrypted on the plastic cards that come with the lock. Long ago, some locksmiths did actually have keys cut on file, then they must be marked and cross referenced to someones address or name. this is a huge potential security flaw. If the lock shop gets a break in, it sets up all the customers. there is no reason to actually have keys, just the information, which nowadays, can be on a piece of digital media like a cd. this is potentially more secure because a thief may not know what he is looking at and find other things more valuable to carry away.

[Raccoon]

Right. That is exactly what I meant.

In fact, with all lock work I do, I ask the customer "Would you like me to keep your key on file so more can be made in the event they are lost?" When what I mean is I'll keep their key code recorded on the invoice.

[Shrub]

Racc, be very careful as your insurance may not cover that,

There was a thread on here a long time ago about a lockie shop that was broken into and all the codes/invoices stolen giving the theives full biting info for most of the neighbourhood,

Ive recently found out that a local builder has every single lock hes ever installed keyed alike and as soon as i trace who it is im reporting him to the police,

Be very careful is my advice, its somthing i would never do but know a lot do, my local car dealer keeps all details for all cars sold but i guess at least its behind a password on a computor which is better than a bunch of papers,

At least think up a number and add that to every code you ever write down,

[amehel0]

the company i am doing work for just drill them they work on mainly comercial stuff so all lockouts ever get the key or if high sec like by lock or twin just drill and replcae. that goes for all companys where i live as my workshop manager worked around and hes seen most techniques.

[amehel0]

the company i am doing work for just drill them they work on mainly comercial stuff so all lockouts ever get the key or if high sec like by lock or twin just drill and replcae. that goes for all companys where i live as my workshop manager worked around and hes seen most techniques.