ERA BS Nightlatch

[caffn8me]

Well first of all I should say hello! This is my first post on this forum. I've not needed to pick a lock in years but I've always been fascinated by them.

For reasons I'll go into in rather more detail in another post (but not today) I've needed to modify the escutcheon assembly that comes with the new ERA British Standard Nightlatch to accept a different brand cylinder.

The assembly encloses the standard ERA six pin cylinder and is designed to provide a door pull to close the door with and protect the cylinder itself against drilling.

The drill protection is provided by a disk that covers the keyway with a slot in it through which the key is inserted into the standard cylinder keyway. I needed a longer slot to accommodate a different cylinder.

I decided that try as I might, I wouldn't be able to achieve a neat result that would leave the brass plating intact so I took the disk to an engineering workshop to be milled properly.

The engineer rang me up a few minutes after I'd left complaining that the material was so hard that not only had he broken several slotdrills attempting to mill the slot but he couldn't even get them to start to cut into the material, let alone mill it. He suggested that a solid carbide bit was the only thing to use.

I've just ordered a solid carbide slotdrill for him to use but I'm quite impressed that the anti drill plate seems to be so effective on the ERA BS Nightlatch. Of course, if I have more money to waste I'd buy another and see how well it stands up to a locksmith's hardplate drill.

For now it's a thumb's up for ERA

Has anyone else tried to drill/cut one of these? I'll try to post some pics tomorrow to show my modifications.

[UNFORGIVEN]

i did one on a yale PBS1
there are dibples on the back of the dise that fit neatly into the recess of the keyway

but y would you want to change it to have a different brand of cylinder in there ????

plus one you change the front you would have to change the back also as they are both double locking with one key whats the point in haveing one front door lock and 2 keys for it ?

[caffn8me]

i did one on a yale PBS1
there are dibples on the back of the dise that fit neatly into the recess of the keyway

but y would you want to change it to have a different brand of cylinder in there ????

The reason for ditching the original external cylinder is to prevent the lock being bumped. The new cylinder is an Evva 3KS which does have some vulnerability to drilling (according to this forum) which is why I want to provide some upgraded protection. My previous lock was recently drilled open and I don't want it to happen again. I lost enough last time. I can't afford a Geminy shield yet so the ERA cover will have to do.

plus one you change the front you would have to change the back also as they are both double locking with one key whats the point in haveing one front door lock and 2 keys for it ?

I'm worried about people breaking in rather than breaking out. I'm happy to have a different key for the inside. It's like that already at my mother's house after the external cylinder on a double cylinder nightlatch had to be changed. It's not a problem.

To be honest, when I bought the nightlatch I wanted just the latch assemby and was expecting to ditch the front part with the external cylinder completely. Discovering that it could be used to protect the 3KS against drilling was a bonus. If course it will only work if the carbide mills can cut it!

I hope this makes sense.

[Raymond]

I regularly carry two replacement hacksaw blades. One is a steel cable withcarbide grit bonded on and the other is like a regular hacksaw blade only with the carbide grit bonded on. Try one of these. With the disk in a vise, feed the cable through the slot and see if it will saw farther. I usually use these to cut padlock shackles and drill bits and other hardened items.

[Raymond]

Please forgive me for double posting. I am curious about the the nightlatch cover plate as I have never seen one exactly like it here. Can you post a photo to give me some better idea about it?

I also remembered that I bought some diamond coated cut-off blades for my dremel that might lengthen the slot. Happy sawing.

Thanks

[Shrub]

Just to make you clear that altering the locks removes the insurance approval, but i guess you know that by putting a 3ks in there that theres no insurance approval anyway,

Just thought i would point it out however as the customer will need additional locks fitted to comply with the insurance (whether this is your own home or not),

What you should have done if worried is leave what you have alone and fit an additional lock maybe a mortice lock?

[caffn8me]

Just to make you clear that altering the locks removes the insurance approval, but i guess you know that by putting a 3ks in there that theres no insurance approval anyway,

Just thought i would point it out however as the customer will need additional locks fitted to comply with the insurance (whether this is your own home or not),

What you should have done if worried is leave what you have alone and fit an additional lock maybe a mortice lock?

Hi Shrub! Thank you for your help

It's my own front door. It recently got drilled/forced and I want to prevent that happening again.

The original door had a Chubb 5 lever BS3621:1980 deadlock (looks like a 3G114 but with a smaller backset) as well as a Yale 1109/88 Nightlatch.

The door frame is substantial steel set into brick. The perpetrators put a crowbar between the face of the door and the frame. Eventually the Chubb forced the hardwood solid core door to split.

I've got a new laminated solid core hardwood door which I'm working on to replace my damaged door (which has been temporarily patched up) as it's been damaged beyond repair)

The new top lock is a Chubb 3U114E (fitted it a few minutes ago and BS 3621:2004) and the bottom lock will be a 3G110 (just waiting for it to arrive). Both of these will be protected against forcing with a Kickstop LockGuard 9601UK (picture)

The lock side of the door is also to be protected with an ERA Secustrip Type 2 to prevent a future jemmy attack.

The hinge side has four hinge bolts and the hinges are welded to the door frame. I'm also planning to fit Kickstop HingeGuard door reinforcers in phase 2 and another type of Secustrip [here].

My backdoor (UPVC but one of the better ones) is Euro cylinder and it opens onto a balcony (not ground level) that is clearly overlooked. That will simply have a reinforced handle and cylinder cover (can't tell you which one right now as the details are on a different computer) and a higher security cylinder, probably something which is still secure when snapped and bump proof.

Needless to say, the front door won't be particularly easy to break/pick into so I shall be making sure that a spare set of keys is with my mother and another in a company safe.

I'd thought about putting a steel plate on the front of the door and have done things in such a way that one can be retrofitted should I decide to go ahead with it. Any more suggestions what I could do?

Many thanks

[caffn8me]

Please forgive me for double posting. I am curious about the the nightlatch cover plate as I have never seen one exactly like it here. Can you post a photo to give me some better idea about it?

I also remembered that I bought some diamond coated cut-off blades for my dremel that might lengthen the slot. Happy sawing.

Thanks

Raymond, I'll try to post some pictutres over the weekend for you. Thank you for the suggestion of the carbide tension file but sadly the fittings at each end are too large to go through the slot which gives access to the keyway (it's only 2.5mm across). I should be able to use a diamond file if I can find one small enough or I can wait until the carbide mills arrive next week.

[Shrub]

Ah right i see, sorry if there was any mix up i thought for some reason it was a customers door lol,

It sounds like youve got things quite covered,

The weak spot is the upvc door of course and the euro cylinder in that, the door being over looked shouldnt lure you into a false sence of security as some times with some locks and some doors entry can be gained quick enough to just make it look like you had taken your time useing the key.

Personally i would go for wooden fire door instead of the upvc but thats personal preferance and you sound quite happy with it as the way it is,

You can get additional security for the upvc door but ill be honest and say im not quite sure which is the best way to advise you as i havent done that much of it myself, the easy simple ways are things like sash jammers on the inside and all their alternitives, era have brought a new version out but ive not used it, these dont tend to be too great to be honest as they are only held on by screwing into the plastic and a hefty kick will see them off if badly installed.

It sounds like a commercial premisis with the steel frames etc lol i have to ask that you have of course sorted out all the windows as well and things like roof lifting? (rofs that arent fadtend down on porches etc can be lifted enough to crawl under),

If it was commercial alternitives could be roller shutters, gates in front of the doors etc,

A good alarm may or may not do anything but is better than not having it if you fear being broken into a lot.

[Shrub]

By the way, a decent engineer can cut hardplate with a HSS milling cutter,

To break a cutter means he was doing somthing wrong as normally wrong speeds and feeds without coolant will merely blunt it,

Breaking it could come from useing too smaller a cutter or hes just tried to rush things,

Carbide cutters may still not do it unless your man changes his cutting method,

Im not calling anyone out here nor saying your man is a crap engineer but to snap that many cutters and then claim it cant be done isnt what i expected to hear,

Titainium can be cut with HSS albeit with difficulty but it can be done and thats a lot harder than hard plate,

If you want a simple home solution then use a dremel with a few bits and youll soon cut the bits away you dont want,

[caffn8me]

The premises aren't commercial, it's my flat. It's got one floor above and the floors are solid concrete so there's no possibility of roof entry. It was built in the 1950s and all the internal door frames are steel. The walls are incredibly hard internally. Putting curtain rails in lintels above windows needs HSS drills to get the holes started as Piranha masonry bits won't touch it!

One of my neighbours had her door kicked in a while back and I heard it so called the police who took away the gentleman responsible. The flats on my stairwell are often all empty though because people are away at work so someone could have a go at my door again and nobody would notice. That's why I want a bit better protection.

I can't change the UPVC door as I'm a leaseholder. The flat is ex-local authority and the double glazing is relatively new (and very high quality). To be honest, the probability of someone breaking in through the balcony is slim. It's not adjacent to any other balcony. I have no ground floor windows and windows at the front are largely inaccessible without a cherry picker as there's so much very dense shrubbery which stops a ladder being put there. The back is ladder accessible but overlooked and the windows all have locked handles. Not perfect but as I'm not on the ground floor I'm reasonably happy with things on that side.

I'll let you know how I get on with the engineer when the carbide cutters come if I haven't already found a slim diamond file!

Thank you again so much for your suggestions.

[caffn8me]

By the way, I've just found a link to the handle I'm ordering for the UPVC door; http://www.securityhandle.co.uk/

Not a Geminy handle but better than nothing!

[toomush2drink]

Whenever your in use a pair of sash jammers as they will allow easy escape in a fire yet keep people out very well.

Someone tried to break into my brothers house over christmas but the humble sash jammers kept them out.Its surprising how strong they are once screwed through the steel frame within the box section of the door frame.