Abloy fans - bi-directional disc style lock w/o return bars?

[n2oah]

Well, how much do you want it to be an abloy-like design? Do you want a lock exactly like the abloy, or just with disks?

With discs, and they should turn up to +/- 90 degrees depending on the cuts on the key, and they should have been returned to 0 degrees when the key is outside the lock, and I wonder if that has been done without return bars

Cheers,
mh

Hmmm,
I couldn't find anything in my archive like that. I, personally, don't think it's ever been done.

[Jaakko]

So far, worldwide the ABUS PLUS locking mechanism has not been picked by neither burglars, test institutes or locksmiths.

WTF? Some pretty old info up there? On the other hand, Abus own website FAQ also explains, that in case of a lost key, the lock cannot be opened. Yeah right

On the topic, I don't remember any lock, that would be "Abloy-style" and work without return bars as asked for.

[n2oah]

WTF? Some pretty old info up there? On the other hand, Abus own website FAQ also explains, that in case of a lost key, the lock cannot be opened. Yeah right

Yup. We've all seen pics of the Abus picking tool. I'm not sure how hard it is to use, however.

[Mutzy]

The ford tibbe locks are actually NOT bi-directional. In the sense that the correct key is required for the lock cylinder to turn both ways.

The incorrect tibbe key locks but doesn't unlock.
The correct tibbe key locks and unlocks.

.. Which is understandable, due to the way it locks. I have seen some bi-directional abloy locks before, though. It was a cutaway oval cylinder. (Very cool mechanism)

[mh]

I have seen some bi-directional abloy locks before, though. It was a cutaway oval cylinder. (Very cool mechanism)

Indeed, they are cool Do you remember how the discs were returned before you could pull the key out?

mh

[n2oah]

The incorrect tibbe key locks but doesn't unlock.
The correct tibbe key locks and unlocks.

Interesting. Is the actual mechanism used in the locking with an incorrect key, or does the key just simply relock the mechanism? Could I simply lock the lock with a pick or something, or is there an interact that needs to take place.
(sorry if this belongs in the Adv. Forum, but that's what we pay mods for!)

[Mutzy]

so that's where all my money is going...

(This may get advanced. Sorry if it crosses the line)
Basically, when the lock is in the door, any key will turn the cylinder in the direction that locks the door. Only the correct key can turn the cylinder in the direction that unlocks the door.

Which means if you've got an unlocked car, any random with a tibbe key can come past and lock it on you... I might try to find a lock at work to take a few pictures for ya.

mh - Nah, i can't remember, but i may be able to get my hands on a lock tomorrow. Maybe.

[greyman]

I have seen some bi-directional abloy locks before, though. It was a cutaway oval cylinder. (Very cool mechanism)

Indeed, they are cool Do you remember how the discs were returned before you could pull the key out?

mh

Tibbe (Abloy as distinct from Ava) - just the Abloy/Abus principle - the key blade has leading edges that contact the cutouts in the discs at opposing corners. On the way back, the reverse leading edges contact the opposite corners, returning the discs to the neutral position where the key can be withdrawn.

greyman

[greyman]

I honestly don't have a lot of info on them, I just saw one on eBay once and I stumbled upon a schematic. Here's all I can give you:

N2oah, that is totally bizarre! The Norman lock diagram you have posted is from a 1979 Locksmith Ledger article written by Norman Epstein himself. The reason I know this is that a friend sent me a photocopy of this article just a couple of days ago. Before this, I was unaware that details had been published except in US patents.

mh - I think that the Norman lock mechanism would work either way since it just throws an internal bolt at the back of the cylinder, like in a Fichet cylinder lock. That action could operate the "plug" either way.

greyman

[n2oah]

mh - I think that the Norman lock mechanism would work either way since it just throws an internal bolt at the back of the cylinder, like in a Fichet cylinder lock. That action could operate the "plug" either way.

I am also sure that it works both ways, as it is a mortise cylinder. Who wants a mortise cylinder that only lock or unlocks?

[mh]

for reference purposes:
I found one -
http://www.google.com/patents?id=dEksAA ... dq=3848442

Don't know if that lock was ever produced, though.

Cheers,
mh