Landlord puts tenant's safety at risk

[Raccoon]

I just discovered a new tactic a landlord employed on her properties, and it concerns me.

Apparently, she's tired of having to replace broken windows and damaged screens from tenants who lose their keys, so she fitted all the external doors on her properties with double cylinder deadbolts. The idea is, if a tenant loses their keys, they can't simply crawl through a window to get into the building and unlock the door. They'd have to come to her for new keys.

Naturally, this does nothing to prevent them from crawling in to retrieve keys that they locked inside-- it only hinders them if they permanently lose their keys.

The problem is that double cylinder deadbolts pose a fire safety hazard, especially since the doors are all-metal, so they're not easily busted through. And since noone can just reach-in and unlock the door, the need for double cylinder bolts is unjustified.

I started another thread regarding locksmith safety regulations, but I'd like some opinions on this issue specifically without filling that thread with chatter.

[Shrub]

Most euros here are key both sides and i see no issue with it,

If its an elderly person it may be a good idea to offer thumbturns on the inside but otherwise its not a problem here,

Infact a thumbturn on the inside considerably lessons the security in most cases here due to one or two things but mainly the letter box we have cut into our doors allows the soap shy to open the door ilegally,

Is there some rule over there regarding installing them?

[Raccoon]

Hehe, "soap shy". I like that.

I've heard repeated a number of times on this forum that, in the States, it both unwise and potentially illegal to install double cylinder bolts. It is very rarely seen, as the thumb turn dominates the market. Many posts speak of local fire code that prohibit double cylinder bolts, but I can't recall any locales off hand.

[Raccoon]

Let me add that, by "very rarely seen", I estimate a number between 1 of 10 to 1 of 20 (or more) homes use double cylinder deadbolts. Since we haven't been using mailbox slotted doors for 50 to 100 years, that's not a concern for us here. The majority of double cylinder bolt use are on glass doors, but even then I see most glass doors with thumb turns.

[Shrub]

Ive had that impression about the us as well to be honest, maybe a check with the local fire department will sort your current concern out

I personally dont like the idea of a keyed cylinder on the inside where the elderly is involved but then again i hate thubturns due to the lack of security they provide,

They not only have the possable threat of being used to open the door but it also makes it easy for a robber to get out the front door once theyve climbed through a window or somthing and walking back out a door with a bag of swag looks a lot better than climbing out the window again,

Double edged sword i guess but where you are theres a lot less issue with the letter boxes of course,

[79commando]

It's building regulations in Scotland that if more than two non related people live in a property the door finally exited must operate without the use of a key. The security is not comprimised if a letter box protector or resistant to by-passing cylinder is used.

[freakparade3]

If it's a double cylinder deadbolt how can you lock your keys inside?

[Jryanruch]

Egress has to be a single unlocking action and not require special knowledge (ie. a key, or the location of a key). Fire Inspectors are pretty particular in these parts -- but most rentals are 'unregistered.'

[ponsaloti]

Why are you talking about letter boxes and t/turns in the public section?

[Raccoon]

If it's a double cylinder deadbolt how can you lock your keys inside?

You make a good case for the aforementioned landlord. So her tenants aren't breaking windows if they lose their key (because it'd be obvious they lost the key), and they wouldn't be climbing in to retrieve the key if it was needed to lock the door in the first place.

I should also note that the knob set was a passage set, no lock. The doors could only be secured by means deadbolt.

79commando & Jryanruch: Do you have any more detailed information about this? A copy of those regulations and where they pertain would be most useful.

[jimb]

Let me add that, by "very rarely seen", I estimate a number between 1 of 10 to 1 of 20 (or more) homes use double cylinder deadbolts.

In my area, if you get out in the hood which is where I have spent a lot of time you will find that over 50% of the homes have locks that will be keyed on both sides. I had the owner of a barber shop a couple of months ago loose his keys and I had to go through 4 locks to open his shop. He had a security door with a keyed 2 sided deadbolt and a knob lock. After opening that door he had a lever handle lock and another keyed 2 sided deadbolt on the other door. His back door was bolted shut.

I don't like these locks because of fire safety. If your house catches fire and your keys are not handy or you can't recall where you left them then you could have a problem.

I should put this in your other thread but since I'm here I'm going to go a head and mention it. I don't know if this is a local or a national law. If a door is a fire exit it must swing out, it must have a panic bar and the door can not have any other locks on it even if the other locks are left unlocked during business hours.

I had a local restaurant tell me that they were required to furnish the fire department with a key in case they needed to enter after hours. This one was in Overland Park, Kansas.

[Raccoon]

Why are you talking about letter boxes and t/turns in the public section?

The existence of letterbox slots and thumbturns are no secret or guarded knowledge. We simply do not detail their bypass on the public forums. We, however, do detail that they pose a flaw to security and how that flaw can be minimized.

[zeke79]

It is against life codes likely for YOU to install. You could be liable I assume if someone were to be injured in a fire and were delayed or unable to get out.

She CAN however install them herself if it is her residence. Seeing as though someone is renting the property, your best bet is to just contact the area fire marshall, give them the address and the phone number of the landlord and let them handle it as that is their job. You will likely find out what you can and cannot do and you may help someone out in the mean time.

FWIW, with todays courts I would be apprehensive about installing a double cylinder deadbolt on a home even IF the "fire marshall" says it is ok. I would atleast have it in writing and notorized to help back you up should you land in the hot seat which is likely in the situation of a "wrongful death" suit or the likes.

[Raccoon]

I should put this in your other thread but since I'm here...
This one was in Overland Park, Kansas.

I do appreciate this insight. If you could dig up more specifics, with how to obtain this information ourselves, that'd be even more handy. I'm aware of panic bars and fire doors that swing out, but few people are aware of how to obtain this knowledge without another locksmith/contractor telling them second-hand.

[freakparade3]

Personally, I would not like having my door only lock with a double side deadbolt. My little sister and brother in law asked me to install one on their basement door, which I did but later removed it and replaced it with a single cylinder. My reason for doing so was that here in eastern Iowa we have alot of tornadoes and my little sister freaks out. I was concerned with her ability to find her keys while holding the baby and getting the lock open while the sirens are blaring. In emergency situations people tend to panic. This means forgetting where their keys are, not remembering what key it is. In situations where seconds can mean life or death, I do not like the idea.